studio planning for 2 car garage studio

hi guys, so i had a thread on wall construction in the construction side of things, but it seems i was a bit ahead of myself... so now im looking for advice on the actual layout... attached is a sketchup file of what im thinking so far... it seems that most people on here like the idea of the airlock/hallway, so i have tried to incorporate that into my design.. it seems that even though im losing more space in the iso booth/bathroom area, i would actually be gaining more usable space in my control room because i could have all doors except for the bathroom opening into the hallway area. and this would also give me better isolation between the control room and iso booth right? please feel free to tear apart the design.. and give input as you see fit.. as far as the control room, im planning on beefing up the existing garage walls, and then using genie clips with the typical drywall, green glue, drywall sandwich. rather than creating a room within a room to save on space. and my control room volume level never really gets too out of hand.. also, im thinking of making the control room roof a smaller a frame ceiling that will utilize half of the existing ceiling, that i will also have to beef up.. but this way, i can get some height/volume of the room, and use that gained a-frame ceiling as bass trapping. then building a false cloth ceiling where the horizontal support beems will be. (not pictured yet) also i can use the space outside of that for hvac ducting... are there any other options that you guys see? or any ideas or comments? my sketchup file is too big to upload, and i forgot how to purge... so here is a download link to the sketchup file.. http://db.tt/rBDzxjZ thanks in advance beau

"my sketchup file is too big to upload, and i forgot how to purge... so here is a download link to the sketchup file.." Select "window"/"model info"/"statistics" Also, select "delete guides"

deleted

ok, so i redrew the sketchup file. it seems when using the house builder plugin to build walls, it makes the file much bigger. so i redrew it without it.. the walls are 8'6" high. i chose to have all of the doors opening into the airlock, except for the bathroom.. this way it saves space in the actual control room and iso booth.. im also thinking to have the door from the iso booth swing in that particular direction because i figured most of the opening and closing is going to be from the control room into the iso booth.. im also thinking of floating the floor and walls of the iso booth for better isolation... i figure it might be cost effective because it is such a small space. im going to be tracking a lot of heavy metal/ loud rock guitars and bass in that iso booth.. marshalls on 11 type of thing.. so my question is, does the air lock need its own leaf/wall? or is it correct in the way it is in the file? iso room-mass-air/airlock?? and how can i make the hallway/airlock be a "finished"/drywalled hallway? would i be able to put a single layer of drywall on that wall? or would that hurt the isolation of that wall. another option for that wall (iso booth wall with door) would be an inside out wall? that way the double dry wall is on the hallway side? and the treatment side would be in the iso booth side? and please feel free to point out any problems you see. thanks beau

The air lock might work as it is...however please consider this:

thanks brien! here is the new plan. one concern i have about making the airlock its own wall is the obvious loss of space.. it seems i would have to have double doors leading into the hallway, also causing another problem of now one side of the double doors would have to open IN to the iso booth and IN to the control room, losing space on an already tight space... also, since the main goal is to isolate from iso booth to control room and iso booth to outside, what is the purpose of the double walls separating each room from the hallway? after reading about john's left bank studio design and from what i understand, the air spring being not contained in a single area, my airlock would hopefully give any sound that passes through wall X a chance to disperse before coming in contact with the other rooms?? also, i am thinking of a larger air/spring (is that the correct terminology?) between the iso and control room. 3.5" should give better low end isolation than a thinner air spring right? another idea is to do a layer of mass loaded vinyl around the iso booth. thoughts? and one off the wall question... is there any acoustical purpose for the raised areas along the back wall of some studios where they have a couch behind the producers desk/gear rack? or is it just to get the band/producer up higher to see whats going on? sorry if that is a really dumb question. thanks beau

just make sure the exterior door has enough mass and seals well. otherwise using the airlock that way is a good choice. maybe i'm late in the thread - what is the small (medium?) room above the airlock - an isobooth?

yes, the top right room is going to be an iso booth. below that is the air lock, and the bottom right room is going to be a powder room. i am mainly going to be recording loud electric guitars, bass and vocals in the iso booth. do you think a layer of mass loaded vinyl would help with better isolation? i have heard of 2 ways of installing it. directly on the studs and then the drywall green glue drywall sandwich, or drywall mlv drywall? thanks in advance. beau

do you think a layer of mass loaded vinyl would help with better isolation?

It will help ... to take money out of your pocket! Mass is mass, and the sound waves don't care how much you paid for it: they only react to the physical amount of mass they encounter, regardless of the price tag. So choose the cheapest mass you can, such as plain old drywall. Much more cost effective.

drywall green glue drywall sandwich

That's the best way to do it, yes.

or drywall mlv drywall?

MLV is not designed to act as constrained layer damping, so it cannot substitute for Green Glue. Adding an extra layer of drywall is much cheaper (and more effective) than adding a layer of MLV of the same mass. Besides, who knows how MLV will behave between two layers of drywall? Do you have any research studies showing what the effects will be? In other words, MLV is mostly hype, and has few real uses in studio construction. Yes, it has SOME uses, but not as a cost effective substitute for drywall, and certainly not as a substitute for Green Glue. - Stuart -

thanks stuart! and is there any acoustical function to the raised area behind the producer desk? thanks beau

A raised couch allows people to view the control window to see the tracking area and also get a more accurate response from the monitors...it also gives them the big head :)

hahahha i had a feeling!!!! thanks beau

one more question... i am planning on flush mounting a pair of tannoy dmt 215's as my main (client) monitors. being that these are quite large speakers, the flush mounting process is going to take up almost 3 feet of space. is that going to effect my room ratio/modes and listening position?? if the room is 18 feet long, before flush mounting, would the new length be 15 feet? or would i still make calculations with the 18 feet length? sorry if i am wording this poorly... beau

You throw the ratios out the virtual window....

Hi Guys, I think I have a pretty good idea of the control room. I would like to run these ideas by you guys and see what you think, hopefully pointing out anything that may be an issue. In the image, it looks like the mix position is in the middle of the room, but its actually exactly 38%. Because my room is so small, I was concerned about the guys who sit on the couch with their legs and feet hitting the back of my chair, making me feel claustrophobic, so i decided on 2 chairs in the corners, this way they can stretch out, but just not in my working area. This also gives me more wall space for the back wall diffuser. The racks will be against the walls but on wheels, so i can slide them towards me while im dialing in a mix, or getting a tone while tracking. Then I can slide them back into place to create more space. The right rack will be equipment, and the left rack will be drawers for cables, mics, storage etc. Im going to be flush mounting a pair of Tannoy 215's for checking low end and big volume stuff. However, my main everyday tracking/mixing monitors are atc scm25a's, which are nearfields, and that is where I am stumped. I am looking for a few options of where to place both sets of monitors. Initially i am thinking of placing the nearfields on the meter bridge, then rotating the mains so that the tweeter and mid are above the nearfields firing over them at me. But then i started wondering if it would be possible to flush mount both sets of speakers. Would it be possible? and if so, how would they be placed? Thanks again, Beau

Just a point about the two chairs in the back corners - this is the absolute worst position for them to be, the stereo imaging is nonexistant, being in the corner the bass will be overly emphasized - if you will have clients listening here, they will not be happy. I'd suggest putting them together in the middle where the table is shown, still not ideal but definitely better. I the middle is not possible, then leave them out altogether. Diffusion is pretty much a nonissue in such a small room, and besides a couch or chairs and people sitting in the will add to the absorption and will also have a diffusing effect, so don't worry about them disrupting your rear wall.

Thanks BriHar, I knew the corners would have low end build up, etc. and not a good spot to listen to. It was mainly just a way for me to keep the feet of someone who isn't working, out of my rolling around area. So I am thinking of taking your advice all together and getting rid of the chairs. I mainly only work with one or two people at a time, so this shouldn't be a problem. I am now thinking about hvac and electric. Is there a sketchup tool or something to help with tubing/flexduct? it seems drawing in flexduct with the circle tool takes forever!!! Is there a quicker way of doing this? Thanks, Beau

What I did for Pipes and duct is: -I drew a line along what would be the center of the pipe using the ARC tool to get your bends. -Next draw a circle the diameter of the pipe at one end of the line with the line being the centre point and the circumference perpendicular to the line. -Finally use the "Follow Me" tool to guide the face of the circle along the length of the line. You just have to take care with your bends - especially in relationship to the diameter.

Thank you very much! Beau

I am also trying to figure out how to mount both sets of monitors. Tannoy dmt215 and atc scm25a's. I have included a sketchup file of an option i am thinking.. does anyone else have a more logical/functional way of flush mounting both monitors in the space provided? The front wall is 13.5 feet wide and 10 feet tall. I am trying to keep both sets of monitors as straight as possible, as i prefer my monitors not firing down at me. Thanks in advance, Beau

It's been a while, and I am almost done with the design phase of the control room. I do have a few questions about what types of walls should go where. I am planning on double leaf drywall, green glue, drywall, insulation/studs, 1 inch gap between wall frames, insulation/studs, drywall, green glue, outside siding. however there are a few places in the room where i am not sure if the air gap between the control room and outside wall will be too much, I remember reading something about at a certain point, something happens to the performance of the gap. In the diagram below, I attempt to show the places I have questions about. Walls C, D and F. Would you recommend just leaving those spaces as large air/springs? and is it possible to finish them some how, since that will be a hallway to the control room entrance? Thanks, Beau

i am not sure if the air gap between the control room and outside wall will be too much,

Air gaps in the wall is like money: you can never have too much! :) Seriously, it's not a problem. The basic effect that increasing your air gap has, is to lower the MSM resonant frequency, which is a good thing. What you may have read is that there's a point at which, in a three-leaf wall, the gap becomes large enough that the third leaf doesn't matter any more. However, you do seem to have a basic design problem: Your staircase is in your air gap! :shock: That needs to be fixed. - Stuart -

Hi Stuart, Thank you for your response. How is the stair case a problem? I am thinking that because it is an enclosed stair case, and the enclosing wall will reach from floor to ceiling, it should be treated like any other wall. There will also be a door at the bottom of the stair case. The stair case leads to the 2nd floor of the garage, which will be a lounge. I am attaching an image from a different angle to see if this helps show what i am referencing. Thank you in advance for your help. Beau

How is the stair case a problem?

It's a problem because it is inside your air gap, which is supposed to be absolutely sealed, air-tight.

I am thinking that because it is an enclosed stair case, and the enclosing wall will reach from floor to ceiling, it should be treated like any other wall

That's not what it looks like on the diagram! There seems to be a partial wall between the CR and the stairs, of unknown purpose, but certainly not sealed. Then there's another wall on the other side of the staircase, which I'm assuming is part of the outer-leaf, and is totally sealed on all edges, as well as on the face, with no perforations at all (light switches, electrical outlets, etc.). But the biggest issue is the stairs themselves, and the door at the other end of the stairs. 1) How are you going to seal each of those step? Do you have access to the underside of the staircase? Can you be certain that you attain at least two complete seals on each step and riser, all around all edges, as well as all the other woodwork on those steps? Are you certain? 2) Then the door at the bottom will need to be replaced with a suitable isolation door (solid, massive, heavy duty hinges, no perforations, etc.) and with two complete independent perimeter seals. Can you accomplish all of that? Can you guarantee full sealing of the leaves like that, with zero cracks where air can get through? It just seems like so much work and expense to do all that extra stuff, when a simple sound lock door on the studio itself (with extensions of the walls) would accomplish the same thing, much more reliably and much cheaper. - Stuart -

I could possibly accomplish all of those seals, however, you are right. It will be much easier to do a sound lock, and your input is very much appreciated! Would this work for the sound lock?