It's been a while since I've been on here discussing plans, but now that my Master's degree is almost complete, I am rapidly heading to the beginning of the construction phase. Many of my preconceived plans have changed from before, and so I'm approaching the problem new. I have obtained some information from contractors and such, and have even spent time pricing out materials. In any case, I thought it better to begin fresh. Here's where we stand.
Location
Wichita, KS
Goals
Create a two room basement studio that could house a small (4-5 piece) rock band, live room and control room. Want to allow the wife and future family to be comfortable upstairs while we are rocking the basement.
How Loud?
I'm guessing it will be in the neighborhood of 100-110 db due to the smaller nature of the room. Would like to reduce this to a reasonable level that wouldn't bother others upstairs or in the adjacent rooms.
Constraints
I need to ensure access to a drain cleanout from a bathroom above, so that will be tricky. Also need to keep access to the fuse box, which will probably involve building a mini-door that employs the use of rubber banding to seal the edges. Other than that, the construction is a blank slate. Also, after looking at it, adding drywall up against the subfloor will be very challenging due to the number of obstacles that would have to be avoided. My thought is that since I have an 18" truss (as opposed to joists) that the additional airspace will help with that.
Budget
I have a current budget of $30,000-35,000 to finish the ENTIRE basement. My initial pricing of materials for the entire basement puts me somewhere in the neighborhood of $12,000, without having bids on electrical, HVAC, and plumbing (as those parts will be done by contractors). While I could spend the entire budget, I'd really like to keep it as low as possible, since any additional monies can be put into new gear (this I am excited about).
Details
Current structure of the house is a 18" floor truss with wood subfloor, pad and carpet on the main floor. Basement is concrete with a view out window on one side. There currently exists a structural wall which will be replaced with a beam to allow the most flexibility in the layout. I will also be applying additional drywall to the back of the drywall on a stairwell to add mass to that portion of the construction.
Planned wall structure involves a double wall construction as outlined in the attached sketchup file. Two layers of 5/8" drywall will be applied on both sides, with the cavity being filled with R-13 faced insulation. The ceiling will not be splayed, and will have two (2) layers of 5/8" drywall applied to RC-1 channel that is installed across the trusses. All walls will be separated one (1) inch from parallel walls, whether foundation or wood framing, and will be connected via isolators. My current plan in the studio is to put down subfloor panels on the concrete, add a layer of cork under that to absorb some vibrations, and put engineered wood floor over the top of that (although there are some other options I am considering). The locations of boxouts and soffits for the beam and drain have not exactly been specified. Assuming a layout close to this one is used, I'm going to find out how the HVAC contractor would like to route the supply and return ducts before settling on the final location of these walls, but this should be close enough to give a general idea. Also, while the height of the walls is approximately correct, the beam thickness is only 11", so it is considerably thinner than shown, but I didn't want to tinker any more with the door header in the ruby script. You get the idea. Door between control and live room will be a sliding glass door found here. I will also be using them for the interior studio window which can be opened to the outside. Door to the rest of the basement will be a single "mega-door" per the diagrams in Rod's book.
The rest of the basement will employ standard construction techniques with 1/2" drywall, although I may add the insulation throughout the floor trusses above. No real reason other than to keep the cost down.
Questions
1) Thoughts on permits, one experienced individual thought I shouldn't need a permit for things other than the electrical, plumbing, and HVAC. Right now I'm leaning towards getting the permits, but I don't like paying to work on my own house, and they require you to pretty much finish within a year here. Also, would I need to get the whole permit to replace the structural wall with a beam? I am considering getting that done in advance, so I can hit the ground running when it does come time to start the project full-speed. This is something I viewed that could be done in a weekend, and save me the hassle later. Could I get a small permit just to replace the beam? Is a permit even needed since I'm not changing the structural path?
2) HVAC Ducting: While I am planning on doing the duct board for the supply and return ducts in the studio, the rest of the house is fed with the more typical round lines (see photos). Since the openings of these will not directly open to the studio, do I need to treat the interior of them as I have seen recommended in other places? Or can I just put batting around them to keep them from vibrating?
3) Bass traps: As you can see from my layout, I'm trying to employ splayed walls in the control room. At the front and rear of that room, I have some walls that are slightly off parallel from the way the rest of the basement walls. Should I make these the walls of the studio, with the drywall attached? Or could I turn them into diagonal bass traps in those areas, with wood slats over them, and the wall underneath having the drywall? Or is my control room layout stupid for other reasons.
4) I have not decided on how I want to connect the mics from the live room to the control room. Use snakes? Wall Panels? Mount snakes in the wall? Then use 1/4" on the other end to connect into a patchbay? Thoughts?
5) On the same thought, how do you typically supply power to all your control room gear? Use a lot of outlets? Use one of those rack mounted devices used to clean up the AC power (I forget what they call them)? Or will a simple surge protector suffice?
6) When installing RC-1 to the ceiling, should I do it uniformly over the entire ceiling before I even put up the interior walls? Since none of the walls would be connected to the ceiling directly, I kind of view this as the simplest solution so that numerous cuts don't have to be made. But by the same token, that's really only an issue where the double wall between live and control room meet.
Conclusions
I tried to be as thorough as possible, but if I have overlooked something, please let me know. I'm getting pretty fired up as I move closer to beginning the construction process. I have the beam design sitting here, material prices laid out, the basement is cleaned up, and I started picking up some needed tools this past week in case I replace the beam soon. EXCITEMENT!
Kansas Basement Studio
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 16333.
"Also, would I need to get the whole permit to replace the structural wall with a beam? "
There is no whole permit, as each trade is required to get a permit for their craft as it pertains to work in your home.
Replacing a structural wall with an LVL is no simple task and the fact that it is in a basement will make it even more difficult...assuming it can be done at all. I would think that not only do you need a permit, or who ever does the work should get one if only for their own protection, it could very well effect the way your house works and what the insurance folks will have to say at a later date.
Who ever does the work, they should permit the work...it's good sense to protect yourself as any business person will tell you.
I should be more specific. For the permit, would I need to get one for the entire basement. As I understand it, the OCI around here has trade permits for electrical, HVAC, and plumbing, but homeowners can get a "remodeling" permit to work on everything else in their own house (they can also take a basic test to do the electrical, HVAC, and plumbing, but I'm not going there). This question probably is better suited for the OCI, but I was wondering if anyone thought I should get a separate permit for the wall, and then have the rest of the basement (framing, sheetrock, etc.) on a different permit. The reason for two permits is so that I can do the beam now, before final plans are complete on the basement, without the clock ticking on my basement studio. The downside is the potential cost of two permits. The good news is I believe I can replace the wall myself with some help. I had a local truss manufacturer draw up what the beam would need to be for that span. It's beefy. Three pieces of 1 3/4" x 11 7/8" Microllam LVL. Each piece will weigh 91 lbs. xSpace, does that clear up my question a bit more?"Also, would I need to get the whole permit to replace the structural wall with a beam? " There is no whole permit, as each trade is required to get a permit for their craft as it pertains to work in your home. Replacing a structural wall with an LVL is no simple task and the fact that it is in a basement will make it even more difficult...assuming it can be done at all. I would think that not only do you need a permit, or who ever does the work should get one if only for their own protection, it could very well effect the way your house works and what the insurance folks will have to say at a later date. Who ever does the work, they should permit the work...it's good sense to protect yourself as any business person will tell you.
you could just get all the design work out of the way then once you're ready get the renovation permit and do all the construction work at one time.
That's true, Glenn. In that regard, I have my walls splayed at about 5 degrees. Should I push to move them to 7 degrees, or is that enough? I'm trying to maximize my use of space.
Another question I have is room treatment. Should I have all the interior walls in the control room faced with drywall, or should I use the angled walls at the front and back as bass traps / absorbers of some kind? Would this arrangement be conducive to just adding some panels to create an RFZ with some commercial bass traps in the corners?
Thanks!
if you can go to 7° or more that would good (that's each = so your total splay would be 14...) you could consider inside out walls and using slats and absorption panels in lieu of building them separately. however you will still need LF trapping so some space will be needed (although corners and ceiling-wall corners as well should be used) - over the mix desk (and inside soffits if using them) is good places for LF trapping.
I was pretty clear on what you were saying, a permit only lasts 12 months, so you may well have to purchase another depending on the time frame. My thinking is that maybe I'm not being either too clear or understood. Replacing a load bearing wall is no simple task, and I strongly recommend people that are thinking they can do it, to consider what it is they are attempting. With a truss floor,,,it gets even uglier...by far. The simple process with joists is to shore up the existing overhead joists with a temporary framed wall that falls on either side of the "pocket" area that will be cut out of the joists to allow for the LVL to be installed, giving enough clearance for workers to access this area with limited movement restriction. Wiring, plumbing and all the existing trades either have to be rerouted or taken into consideration as part of this move. But we are talking about a truss floor...and the procedure is completely different and requires a skill level that you cannot achieve from simply reading about it. The floor trusses have to actually be modified >before< they are cut for the pocket. They have to perform like a standard floor joist in that if they do not have vertical bracing/blocking installed at the potential cut mark, the trusses can actually break and or begin to be caught under the pull of gravity and the existing weight of the structure including overhead walls that may be placed on the truss at a point overhead that you have not considered yet. This requires a very high degree of accuracy and timing in truss blocking/temporary wall placement, where does the LVL enter the room and does it need to be placed on the floor below BEFORE the temp walls go up to assure that you DO have access to the beam parts and not essentially lock your material out of the ability to complete the job. If you do construction, and you have done this type of thing before, then you may have a better chance of success. When I said get the permits, it was in reference to the construction folks that will be handling the LVL installation, since I find it difficult to believe that you and your buddies should attempt this at the risk of life and a place to live. Is that more clear, my concerns that is?The good news is I believe I can replace the wall myself with some help. I had a local truss manufacturer draw up what the beam would need to be for that span. It's beefy. Three pieces of 1 3/4" x 11 7/8" Microllam LVL. Each piece will weigh 91 lbs. xSpace, does that clear up my question a bit more?
xSpace,
Your concerns are more clear now. You can rest assured I'm not actually modifying any of the trusses. I'm just replacing the supporting wall underneath with a header beam of equal strength. Similar to the process designed in this website.
http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-Projects/Wall---Ceiling/Wall-Repair/how-to-install-a-loadbearing-beam
It's something that needs to be done well, but I still see this as a reasonable project, since the wall is only providing additional support to the floor trusses, and does not directly support the roof trusses.
Attached is an updated layout where I have modified the wall splay angle to the recommended 7 degrees.
A question I have regarding this framing layout is how to deal with the large gaps at the front and back of the control room. Do I need to have a fireblock throughout the open space? Can additional insulation be placed in this area? Just looking for some feedback on this part.
And some of my remaining questions from the original post...
2) Do I need to do any treatment to existing metal HVAC ducts that will not have any openings shared with the studio?
4) I have not decided on how I want to connect the mics from the live room to the control room. Use snakes? Wall Panels? Mount snakes in the wall? Then use 1/4" on the other end to connect into a patchbay? What are your thoughts and recommendations?
5) On the same thought, how do you typically supply power to all your control room gear? Use a lot of outlets? Use one of those rack mounted devices used to clean up the AC power (I forget what they call them)? Or will a simple surge protector suffice?
Thanks for your input!
assuming the red is your new beam - are you wrapping that in a soffit to isolate it from the live room? on the HVAC - if it's behind your isolation ceiling, just having the ceiling insulation lightly contact it to dampen any air flow vibrations should be enough BUT if you have the option to put duct liner in it to help reduce any sound carrying within the duct. you need your fire stops anywhere the walls of your isolated rooms have an opening up into the new air space you're creating over your rooms. so edges and the split between.
Yes, I will doing a soffit around the beam to keep it isolated. Similar to the soffit that Rod outlines in his book for an HVAC duct. Regarding addition of duct liner to an existing HVAC system: Is that something that is relatively easy to accomplish after the fact? Am I mainly concerned only with the areas above the studio, or add linear throughout the system (granted, it will be more efficient anyway, but based on the law of diminishing returns what should my focus be)? I briefly searched the internet, but haven't found any DIYers attempting this after the fact. Any advice you could give here would be great. I'm not opposed to the HVAC manufactuer changing it, since they will be putting in the separate system for the studio, but I thought they might overcharge me a bit. I will just then extend the drywall firestop all the way across those gaps, and then use the rockwool and firecaulk combination at the edges. Does that sound right? I'll try and get some decibel measurements on the area soon (although with the area being completely open it will be a bit rough). I also ran some heat load estimates based on Rod's book, and I'm looking at about 1.5 tons of cooling needed for this space.assuming the red is your new beam - are you wrapping that in a soffit to isolate it from the live room? on the HVAC - if it's behind your isolation ceiling, just having the ceiling insulation lightly contact it to dampen any air flow vibrations should be enough BUT if you have the option to put duct liner in it to help reduce any sound carrying within the duct. you need your fire stops anywhere the walls of your isolated rooms have an opening up into the new air space you're creating over your rooms. so edges and the split between.
I'm going to preempt myself here and say that I'm likely to just replace the duct work. My father-in-law has built a couple of houses and he thinks we could accomplish it in a few days (I'll round that up to a few weekends :wink: ). Since this provides the best isolation, it sounds like the best option (and only a couple hundred $$$ in materials).
The aluminum rectangular duct with some sort of ductboard or lined duct (I'll have to go see what's available at Lowe's and Menards). And then replace the small circular duct with flexible duct that has insulation already to absorb.
Probably will try starting that in a couple of weeks, since it can be done before getting permits for the rest of the basement.
OK, carry on :yahoo:
very good!
OK, some design updates.
After looking at other designs on this forum for a little while, I decided to move the "isolation" walls to be right along the edges of the room, and turn the interior walls into broadband slot resonators. I imagine these would need to be modified slightly, but I think using that empty space as a large absorber at the front and back of the rooms would be my best approach to having ideal acoustics. Thoughts?
Additionally, I took some measurements of the empty basement and the room above using a decibel meter, my speaker/subwoofer combo, and laptop. Direct measurements were taken 3 feet away from the speakers, and room measurements above were taken in the center of the room. Would you expect the transmission loss between two rooms at different levels would be a linear or nonlinear response? I'm pretty sure I'm headed in the right direction with the construction of the walls and ceiling, but I'm trying to have some numerical backing for it.
Just to run it by this group:
Wall Construction: 2 Layers 5/8" sheetrock, 2x4 studs 24" O.C. with R-13 insulation filling cavity, 1" airspace, 2x4 studs 24" O.C. w/ R-13, 2 Layers 5/8" sheetrock.
Ceiling Construction (top-down): Carpet, Pad, Subfloor, R-19 insulation between 18" deep trusses 24" O.C., Resilient channel (RC-1 or 2), 2 layers of 5/8" sheetrock.
Should be meeting with an HVAC contractor soon to get the system specified for these two rooms.