Making the most of a room

Hi everyone. I kindly ask for your assistance with the following problem: Goal Setting up an existing room for both practicing, recording and mixing at non professional levels to reach the best possible sonic quality with a tight - TIGHT - budget and a lot of will & DIY experience. I'm talking about <600€ budget and 10+ years of carpentry. Environment The room is located in a house basement. Its layout and dimensions are reported in the attached picture in the end of this post. The room's walls and ceiling are completely covered with polyurethane foam like this The walls are standard brick&concrete walls except for the bottom one (plasterwork). There is no need for acoustic insulation with respect to the outside of the room. Constraints Nothing can be done to the walls and the ceiling - no drilling, no nails, no nothing. New structures must be of the "freestanding" kind. Flexibility is required in terms of instruments & monitors positioning Now i realize that no optimal result can be achieved in such a situation and i'm not looking for the perfect sound in the perfect room - still i believe there's space for improvement and that's why i'm asking for your help. I spent the last 3 days reading about acoustics (starting from Ethan Winer's excellent article), panels, traps and all the related DIY projects I could find. Building freestanding variations seems doable and not overly complicated. I am most concerned about what-to-put-where-and-why. Any ideas? I am located in Italy, 20km east of Milan. Big thanks to everyone who will take an interest in this and to the people managing this forum - what you offer to the community is unvaluable. I sincerely beg your pardon for my english - i'm trying to get better at speaking the language. Jacopo Scazzosi.

welcome! the foam may be part of the problem making things dead in the HF and no reasonable absorption for mids and lows. since isolation isn't a concern, then treatments should focus on corners (wall-ceiling are also corners) and using thicker porous absorbers scattered on the ceiling and walls will help balance things. using some absorbers on first reflection points on the right-hand end of the room and centering your mix position there and set back from the right wall starting around 38% of the room length back, will get you started. using simple frames, rigid insulation, and cloth will get you a decent number of absorbers built. take off foam and leave some hard surfaces and then stack some of the foam in spots to increase it's depth - this will help extend your budget.

gullfo wrote:

welcome! the foam may be part of the problem making things dead in the HF and no reasonable absorption for mids and lows. since isolation isn't a concern, then treatments should focus on corners (wall-ceiling are also corners) and using thicker porous absorbers scattered on the ceiling and walls will help balance things. using some absorbers on first reflection points on the right-hand end of the room and centering your mix position there and set back from the right wall starting around 38% of the room length back, will get you started. using simple frames, rigid insulation, and cloth will get you a decent number of absorbers built. take off foam and leave some hard surfaces and then stack some of the foam in spots to increase it's depth - this will help extend your budget.

Hello Glenn and thank you for your kind answer. I'm afraid taking off the foam is not going to be an option (long story... don't ask). However, I could build some hardwood panels along with some rigid fiberglass absorbers to balance out both hard and soft surfaces on the walls. Could that work? I've already found a way to hang panels and corners' traps on a freestanding frame. What about the ceiling? Foam is everywhere up there, too. What if I hang (non-contiguously) some heavy-cloth stripes? Thank you again for your assistance.

you could make some panels with cloth covered absorbers and screw them on the walls and ceiling.

Ok! I was planning on starting with bass traps and absorber panels - 4'' 70kg/m^3 fiberglass for the traps and a half of the absorbers, 2'' 70kg/m^3 fiberglass for the other half of the absorbers. What about the room's vertexes? Would it be better to adapt this design to create traps for the vertexes or should I use the standard panel design as in this picture? I guess based on the results I might later have to add diffusers of some kind since the foam is absorbing a lot of hf - what kind of diffusers would you suggest and where? I can build almost every kind of diy diffuser present in this forum. Once again, thank you for your precious assistance.

you could go with the semi-circle trap or simply use absorptive panels hung down from the peak say 300mm if possible.

Thank you! Should I open a thread in the "studios under construction/other studios" forum about what I am doing?

if this is a design from off this site, then other studios would be good, or the construction forum is good - it helps to post the detailed design information so everyone is working off the same information.

Hello everybody (and hello to you, Glenn)! Things have changed a bit and I am, once again, in need of some assistance. Thanks to everyone who'll take some time to read this and share his thoughts and ideas. Goals - UPDATED Setting up an existing room for recording, mixing, post-producing and possibly streaming live at semi-pro levels to reach the best possible sonic quality with a small budget and a lot of will & DIY experience. We do not plan to have more than 5 musicians at a time in the recording room. We are planning to invest what we can when we can but the starting budget will be around 1000€, maybe even less. Environment - UPDATED The room is located on the ground floor of an old farm. Its layout and dimensions are reported in the attached pictures. Walls were built the old way with brick+concrete/terrain/brick+concrete layers and they are about 60cms thick. The floor is made of marble tiles and the ceiling appears as a layer of plaster. I guess wooden beams must be somewhere above that layer to support the upper floor. The ceiling is about 290cms high. There is no need for acoustic insulation with respect to the outsides of the room. Constraints - UPDATES Close to none except that we cannot pull down the walls that are already there. Now i realize that no optimal result can be achieved in such a situation and i'm not looking for the perfect sound in the perfect room - still i believe there's space for improvement and that's why i'm asking for your help.

• Given the room's size and shape, should I split it into two different environments (ctrl and recording rooms)?
• What should I do as far as the ceiling and the floor are concerned?

Here is the room's layout: Here is an idea: the grey band represents a new wall splitting the room into the control and the recording areas. The red line represents heavy tapestry acting as a separator for the storage area and wc (with its own door). Could the small depth of the control room be an acoustical problem? A picture of the actual room: Thanks again to everyone who'll take the time to read through this. Jacopo.

i would switch the position of the CR and LR. this would allow some expansion into the storage area and/or leverage the storage via space coupling for additional trapping. plus avoiding having too many people carrying things through the CR and you could use the CR and the LR independently for rehearsals etc as well as mixing etc. i think a double wall dividing the space on a 12 degree angle should do it.

Glenn, you are awesome. Truly. The whole "soffits" thing seems a bit overkill considering that we don't even own the monitors we'll use once this will be over. Would it be ok to use drywalls to shape the room in the same way and just use stands for the speakers? I know this is not the optimal solution but, if doable, it would turn out as a less expensive and more flexible one which, given the nature of the project, i would prefer. I guess absorbers and slats are to be mounted on drywalls. What to put and how to put it between the original walls and the new drywalls? From what I understand, 70kg/m^2 rockwool shoud do fine - I would then need to create absorber panels . What kind of absorbers? From my readings it appears that there are three main kinds of absorber panels - 7-8cm thick, 100kg/m^2 rockwool for med. freq. - 15-16cm thick, 70kg/m^2 rockwool for low freq. - pyramidals (density?) for high. freq. Also, how far should I put drywalls' studs from each other? As far as I know, proportions and dimensions of the slats are to be calculated accordingly to some formula I am sure I have seen somewhere around here but currently lost track of its location. However, should I hang the bars directly on the drywall? Also, what about the ceiling and the floor? How shoud I treat them considering the room is 2.90cms high? From what I gathered, building a counter-soffit and a second floor shouldn't be needed because we have no need for acoustic proofing - maybe some carpetry on the floor and absorbers hung from the ceiling as some threads suggests to do? I know that there are plenty of answers to these questions but most of them have differences between each other and I am unable to quantify the importance of such differences. Once again, thank you.

you could skip the soffits and go with deep absorption as needed. using slats - go with a broadband approach to ensure good overall balance. studs are 600mm oc. use lightweight insulation in-between walls but if isolation is not the main concern (to the outside not room to room) then just put scattered absorption on the walls and ceiling to balance the space. treat first reflection points - clouds and floor.

Once again thank you for your precious help. I'd like to put a reference to this forum and your persona for everything that you are doing for us - how should I proceed? Maybe a tag on a wall? Back to the studio... Unfortunately enough, we have a door frame exactly where the polydiffuser should go. Facing the frame, you can see it comes maybe 15cm out from the wall. It's an old doorframe with two different doors attached - one facing the exterior of the house and one facing the interior of the house with a 30-40cm gap between them. I guess this come in handy as far as acoustic insulation is concerned but how should I treat the interior door? I'd have no troubles attaching a polydiffuser upon it if needed - what about the 15cm side of the frame? Should I drywall accordingly to eliminate the 90 angles between the wall and that frame? I could attach a polydiffuser to the door and drywall the sides so that the global shape of the poly is preserved and expanded to reach the walls. What would you do? About the floor as a first reflection point - how should I treat it? I guess carpetry is going to be enough - considering all the compromises taken into consideration in the previous posts, what do you think I should do for the floor? Also, even if I skip soffits, should I build the the frame for the wall facing the mixing desk with the same shape (so that the top part of it is not perpendicular to the ceiling but "looks" at the desk)? Thanks.

On a second thought after further reading on the argument, carpetry really comes out as a baaaaad idea. Maybe I'd better leave the floor untreated, or would I?

i would finish the concrete (?) floor - polish and stain - then use scattered rugs or isolation platforms under drums and amps. on the doors - make sure the exterior and interior doors seal really well - not gaps around their frames. on the interior door - if it's mass is not equivalent to the wall, consider beefing it up with MDF (19mm) and also putting a cloth covered absorber (25mm) so it very lightly contacts both doors (or not at all) to dampen the air cavity. on the inside room - an absorber on the door (100mm) will work, no need for a poly on it. you could put a poly across a corner etc. the goal is a frequency balanced and lively room. you'll still find anomalies in the modes etc and you'll still position equipment and instruments where they sound best but the overall room balance will be better and so musicians in the room will find it much nicer to work in.

Thanks for your precious suggestions. The more I look around and read about studio design/construction, the higher the cost of building that double wall and fitting it with adequate doors so that it actually makes sense to have the room splitted into two separate subrooms goes. As my budget is quite limited I'm now wondering whether or not it would be better to switch back to a single room layout type. I have noticed that the "single room studio" topic is quite alive on the net (ex. here on GearSlutz and here on this forum) and read quite a bit about it - I have to say that not only the single room layout seems cheaper but also it inspires me more communication- and vibe-wise. Do you think that a single-room type layout would work for this room, given its dimensions? How should I shape the room for such a layout? I guess simmetry is to be created through new drywalls but where? Where should I position the mixing desk? Would it be fine as in the picture attached? Thanks. Jacopo.

i would still face the desk to the window so the room is expanding behind you. turning at the desk or even a mirror should be ok during tracking.

Ok Glenn, here is what I came up with: new wall to make room more symmetrical without closing the window a possible treatment of the room (absorbers) What do you think? How would you treat such a room? Immense thanks, Jacopo.

that works!