So all this that this guy is doing is just for an STC 40 iso? You can jump to 2:20. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9YtFGq3 ... playnext=2Right now, your situation is the third from the left, rated STC-40. Take out the offending two leaves from both walls, and magically you get STC-57. Yes, that's right: by TAKING OUT those two sheets that are causing your 3rd and 4th leaf, you IMPROVE your isolation by 17 decibels... You mean your designer didn't know this? And he's an expert in acoustics? :shock: Did he tell you what that equation means? - Stuart -
Booth Glass Window: Insulated vs Standard vs Laminated!
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 15731.
maybe use the window AC as a cold closet next to the booth so you can use it to cool and exchange air with both. also, the video, it looks like a lot of unsafe construction - heavy walls unsupported at the top plus gaps between the ceiling and the frames which will be lossy since there won't be enough mass there. window and wall AC units are noisy. consider the closet idea... use two small quiet fans to move air into and out of the rooms. leave an access panel to service the AC unit. take off the cover etc and put in a switch to turn it on and off. put a small divider to allow the best flow for the unit. take out the existing window and frame it for proper support and isolation of the AC unit and improve the isolation of the window as well. save the window to put back later. if you skip the divider panel approach, reverse the role of the vents - warm at the top, cool at the bottom.
0:35 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj82eXwS ... playnext=2 :? ???Sorry, but that just isn't true. He doesn't seem to understand that the entire wall is a tuned system, and what "tunes" it is the mass on each leaf and the air gap, period. It must be tuned to a frequency below 50% of the lowest frequency that you want it to isolate, period. Simple physics.Mass is relative to weight, thickness is dedicated to dimensions. If the low end of a bass note takes 10' to complete a cycle, what's going to be more effective? A 1/2" panel with more mass or a 3/4" panel with more thickness? This is why a 1" air gap can attenuate better than a 1" piece of material.
Garbage. He doesn't know what he is talking about. Blown in insulation that completely fills the stud bays will create flanking paths, and he didn't even mention the most important factor of all: decoupling. A normal 2x4 stud wall does not have it, and therefore is useless as a serious studio wall. Blown-in insulation will buy you nothing extra in isolation: the limiting factor in that wall is flanking, not insulation. And there is no such things as "soundproofing".
Try listening carefully to how his voice sounds in his own studio :shock: , and you might get an idea of why you should not be listening to his advice on how to build your studio! :)
I don't think I'd try to learn how to build a studio by watching random clips on YouTube from unknown people of unknown acoustic expertise! Personally, I'd prefer to base my build on solid science and physics, and what outstanding, knowledgeable, recognized acoustic experts have to say:
Do yourself a major favor, and read "the Bible" of acoustics before you go any further with your build:
http://www.amazon.com/Master-Handbook-A ... 268&sr=8-2
Then, when you understand those basic principles, read this one to learn about how to actually put them in practice and build a room that does work:
http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-St ... 718&sr=1-1
Between those two you'll get a really solid grounding in the principles of acoustics, and hot to apply them in design and construction of your studio.
Did your designer get back to you on the equation yet, or is he still having trouble figuring it out?
- Stuart -
He explains that in this clip actually! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lp7g-2r ... playnext=7 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoLFeQjz ... laynext=10 I didn't ask him about that equation. Doesn't matter to me!Try listening carefully to how his voice sounds in his own studio :shock: , and you might get an idea of why you should not be listening to his advice on how to build your studio! :) - Stuart -
Then I'm done trying to help you. You don't even know what does and does not matter. I did my best.I didn't ask him about that equation. Doesn't matter to me!
It doesn't matter because we are on the internet. Anyone could easily just look it up and tell you the correct meaning, which in the end makes no difference!Then I'm done trying to help you. You don't even know what does and does not matter. I did my best.I didn't ask him about that equation. Doesn't matter to me!
The difference is Stuart is a moderator at a highly respected forum devoted to acoustical rooms. John Sayers, is a very well respected engineer and designer...more than likely longer in years than you have been alive....if he thought it was a correct call, you can bet your ass, your opinion on what he thought was correct is back seat. If you sir have no tolerance to expect that there is a better than average chance that your information can be challenged, and if you are not willing to adjust your thinking based on this, then you are most certainly, in the wrong area. You are not designing, or having designed for you an acoustically correct or well isolated environment but are popping your chops with what we know is basic bs. If that is your goal....then you have hit that mark. But if there is even a remote chance that you recognize that you do not know what you are talking about and most importantly your designer is an idiot, or at least has no fundamental understanding of the basic math involved....then you are free to take this project off the market. Because if it isn't going to be approached as correctly as possible, there is a good chance that you are going to keep hearing about how incorrect it is. :)It doesn't matter because we are on the internet. Anyone could easily just look it up and tell you the correct meaning, which in the end makes no difference!Then I'm done trying to help you. You don't even know what does and does not matter. I did my best.I didn't ask him about that equation. Doesn't matter to me!
Dude, chill out with all of that. First thing, I came here to do research and learn things for myself. I'm not here to play back and forth games about what my designer knows and doesnt know. I didn't come here to get into some senseless pissing contest over who knows more theory. Secondly, I never asked about my studio design in the first place. Guys just took the conversation in a direction that required me to bring it into the discussion. My original question was about the different types of booth glass.
My point is Stuart doesn't know my designer or me. If my designer doesn't know what the equation means, he can easily google it and tell me and I report back here and in the end it will prove nothing. The thread is about me and, not the designer. Dudes making all these suggestions without even knowing about the build. Not once did anyone ask my budget, what the uses of the booth are, the location the booth is in and what's around it, nothing.
"My point is Stuart doesn't know my designer or me"
I know both of you....and you are not qualified to be disrespectful to the people around here at your free will.
Your are not dealing with Stuart...you are talking to me.
This is not a "free forum"....it has guidelines, things that aspire to greatness sponsored by a man that has done some pretty large things in his lifetime.
Like I said, if you want to make a thread that is based on your ill conceived information, then it will most likely go down in flames.
But you have to know this, and I do not think you do yet,,,these men that work here are giants...they can help you but you may get a little bruised up in the process...
edit:
:)
Well, you don't know me and I did not "disrespect" anyone. I said numerous times I don't know the designers final plans nor the actual measurements. All I know is info on some of the ideas from the brainstorming we did. Guys are making all these assumptions and suggestions off of a couple of concept drawings and ideas. It's ridiculous that you find it disrespectful that I would question info you guys are giving when there is so much conflicting information out there. I questioned my designers information as well with the things I found here and other places and he did not feel disrespected at all. I don't care who Stuart is, who you are or what either of your credentials are. If I feel I need to question something you told me against information I found elsewhere, I have the right as a member to do so. It's the Internet for Christ sake and we all know how "forum geniuses" can be and how much false information can be put on these pages. Not saying stuart or anyone here is like that, but you know how forums are. So I will question Stuart, I will question my designer, and I will question JS himself if I feel I need to sort mixed information out. No one is correct 100% of the time and there are often more than one way to do something. If guys wanna act like children and get feelings hurt because a member questions their information then maybe they need to look at themselves as the source of whatever issues they think exist.
Alright, so I know shit got a little rocky in here, mostly due to my own misunderstanding of how all this building stuff works. I wasn't intentionally dissing anyone for the record. I appreciate all the help and suggestions. Now after going over the final design plan I actually understand a lot more, so hopefully we confuse anything. Stu, we are actually going with the above design you mentioned, well similar. First, that extra wall you outlined in one of the conceptual drawings I posted is NOT going to be there. The existing wall is actually going to be the outer wall for the side and rear outer walls. We are removing the sheet rock and replacing the standard insulation with Roxul 3" x 16" x 48" AFB. No drywall is going back on. Then we are building the inner walls with the Roxul as well with drywall only on the booths inner surface, like you asked about. There is not gonna be any drywall between the leafs as I was confusing before. The front wall will have a new outer and inner built. The front walls will also contain the 30" x 24" laminated windows as well as two 32" x 80" steel flush doors (not solid steel, too much $$$). Would have went with 30" doors but the ones I am getting only come in 32" and and 36". Still have plenty of room for the 32". We are also removing the window and replacing it with studs and siding. So overall we have a 7' x 9' area to build in. So I'm shooting for a 4' x 8' booth interior. For drywall we are using 4' x 8' x 1/2" Quietrock 500, doubled up for a total off 1" of drywall on all visible surfaces. Inner and outer studs will be 3" apart making a total of a 12" thickness for the inner and outer with a 10" air gap inside. In the end I will still have a good 12'-13' x 9' control room which isn't bad. So I'm really happy. Uncles coming over to just grab some finally measurements and building starts tomorrow morning. Here's a rough sketch.So if you have a decoupled 10 inch wall made from 2x4s, then you MUST have a 3" physical gap between the frames. It cannot possibly be 2". This does not consider the drywall, which adds 5/8 to each side, thus increasing the total wall thickness to 11 1/4". Like this: Maybe this diagram will help you to understand: - Stuart -
External image, not preserved — original: http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/djhellfire/Vocal%20Booth%20Build/Boothadjustment.jpg
Now the one thing I am undecided on is whether to keep my desk facing the way it is (which would face the booth firing towards the longer length of the room ), or move it to the sidewall facing the shorter side of the room. I know it's better to have the speakers facing the longer way, but it would be nice to be able to just turn my head side ways to see the vocals. verses turning a whole 180. Thoughts? Lot's of exaggerated bass?you could try leaving the desk facing the long way and maybe set up a small mirror so you see the window or web cam facing the window. you could also try turning it but consider then you want more absorption on the wall behind you.