LRRecords New Studio 2011 - Planning & Design

the stuff in the storage as well as the roller door will not add any significant isolation, in fact likely none... lose the florescent lights - too much potential electrical noise and bad karma from the poisons in them... you could spend time to get any much recycled and traded materials to keep your costs down - sweat equity versus cash in hand...

Thanks Glenn! Ok, so the storage area and the items it stores is not going to cause any extra significant isolation. But will it still be ok to incorporate this storage area (keeping roller door intact) into the design, without causing any cavernous resonances third leaf effect? The options (Which is best?): 1.) Stick with my plan, it's fine - good little storage area and no risks of resonances/walls shaking!!etc..!? 2.) Keep isolation & treatment walls where they are in the existing plan, keep roller door intact and dampen with rubberised material or similar and just fill the space with insulation to create a massive bass trap (at the back of the studio, as is common in many control rooms), and find somewhere else to have storage space.? 3.) Dismantle and pull down the roller door, Extend the walls to the extent of the building, creating that extra little bit of space in the studio and find somewhere else to have storage space.? ______________________________________________________________ I hear ya with your advice on the fluros. Just thought it may be good to have them for when I need the mega light, otherwise most of the time I would like to work with a much dimmer and subtle lighting. Currently I use a tall portable lamp in my home/lounge studio, and its fine. Yeah will have to look into options for lighting? I rekon my sista-in-law whose good on the electrics and cabling will have some ideas for this?!? ______________________________________________________________ The newspaper that comes out weekly in WA for buy/sell/trade for everything in WA (mostly metro, Perth area) is called Quokka. It comes out online and in print and has many building materials for sale by private persons and businesses as well as much more. http://www.quokka.com.au cheers :)

ok, on the lights for mega lighting - maybe a single penetration and surface mount the electrics though. the storage cavity should be OK as long as your isolation walls are properly damped.

gullfo wrote:

Maybe just a spray on rubberized coating willnsuffiently dampen the metal shell and leaving the air gap between the inside out isolation wall will do it?

Thanks Glenn. I have done a section (horizontal axis) of the walls detail. Are you suggesting that I also have an Air Gap (How big?) between the Isolation wall drywall and the 20mm RC strip on the Existing Wall ? Will this cause 'third leaf' effects? cheers !

actually what you're showing there is 2 isolation walls (which is good) and you can go to a 25mm gap between frames - the goal is to leave about an 250mm space between the outer and inner drywall layers. you could skip the 12mm drywall and deadsheet and just go with 2x 16mm drywall (or with the deadsheet as well). you're treatment walls are then built inside the inner isolation wall - angled slats, absorbers, clouds, etc etc.

Thanks Glenn. Yep you have confirmed that I am on the right track! So I need to make some adjustments to my design, and then post it up here to double check. My dad came over last weekend and checked out my plans and the back-shed. He got right into it! And he also has some timber, a trailer and some tools for me down on the farm. He may even come help build it!!, which would be great, as he has much building experience (my Grandfather is a builder - now a building inspector, I remember helping grandpa and dad build houses from when i was just a little boy). Got a new car, and a beautiful new baby girl, Ruby. So keen to get out and about gathering materials. Daddys girl is my new 'little rascal' apprentice that will grow up in and use this studio.!!! :)

Have been writing a big email to my sista-in-law to provide her with a list of materials we need to get for the LRR studio build..as she may be able to get some materials at discount prices! Got some interesting info and links (especially for Australian products/companies). A few questions too, it shows where im at with things at the moment - So i thought it would be useful to post here: note: some text blatantly copied from various manufacturers websites, cheers. ________________________________________________________________________________________ Have been enjoying and getting used to life with my new baby girl and apprentice - Ruby Rascal !! But the studio build is always in my mind. The break (from being totally absorbed in the studio design planning and research) has been good to reflect on things. I need to get on with it and change a few things in my design. I have been mostly racking my brains over how to 'soundproof' the existing shed walls and what is actually realistic and possible to do and how to do it (at the mo I wish I was a master acoustician/builder tradesman type). But im not - so back to total obsessive research and the precious advice at the forums.....Big Ups to the internet and certain personalities on this forum (you know who you are :) for this. ok here is a list of the materials I need to get for the new studio build (work in progress): priority:1 means we absolutely need this shit, priority:2 means this shit is good stuff, but optional. 1.Plasterboard - Boral Firestop™ Plasterboard (16mm), Soundstop (10mm), Enviro Soundstop (13mm), Ecostop (13mm, perforations). http://www.boral.com.au/ProductCatalogu ... search=755 There are other products: BGC 16mmm Fire Rated, BarrierBoard, Gyprock Soundchek and Fyrchek, http://www.homeimprovementpages.com.au/ ... asterboard http://www.gyprock.com.au/our-products/ ... 84%A2.aspx http://www.gyprock.com.au/our-products/ ... 84%A2.aspx http://www.soundblock.com.au/soundproof_walls.htm http://www.bgcplaster.com This is great for comparing different types: http://www.how2plaster.com/sound/compare.html First preference would be the Boral Firestop Plasterboard, seems what everyone seems to go for (I guess the theory is to go for the extra mass - 16mm). Or even the Gyprock Fyrchek is much similar as is the BGC 16mm Fire Rated. The BarrierBoard product may be good for fixing to the existing shed walls, rather than double thickness of plasterboard which would need to use more screws and/or greenglue. All depends on the price comparisons really (of which I need to research, gather and share the data) Really - Any of these products will suffice - if at a bargain price! priority:1 2. Greenglue or Quietglue Pro - this is mostly for sticking plasterboard together and provides much isolation. Will prob need a fair bit of it - will get more detail on this. http://www.ultrafonic.com.au/Shop/cat/1 ... mpound.htm http://www.quietrock.com/soundproof-pro ... -glue.html The quietglue Pro seems to be the more affordable option and does just as good job, will have to find out if we can get it in Australia!?! priority:2 3. Insulation - Tontine make a bunch of acoustic insulation products: Looks like the Acousticsorb 2 is the product to go for. http://www.insulationbattsaustralia.com.au/acoustic.php The other product is Bradfords Rockwool - i think this is more popular because it is cheaper and has more mass: Bradford Fibertex Rockwool Partition Batts: http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au/Pr ... ition.aspx We are gonna put this stuff in the wall and ceiling cavities. Or maybe this for the ceiling: http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au/Pr ... ticon.aspx Walls should use mutli-layers of CSR Gyprock® Fyrchek™ with preferably two separate studs to support the walls. Bradford Rockwool or Glasswool Partition Batts should fill the cavity of the walls for an increase of up to 10 STC. If steel roofing is used for these rooms, insulate the roof with Bradford ACOUSTICON™ to reduce rain noise transmission. Ceilings should also use multi layers of CSR Gyprock® Fyrchek™resiliently mounted to the furring channels. Another insulation product: http://www.higginsinsulation.com.au/ind ... &Itemid=61 Rigid Insulation: Bradford Quietel: http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au/Pr ... ietel.aspx This is for using in speaker soffits, acoustic panels and slat resonators. priority:1 3. Furring Channels/ Resilient Channel: we already got 3X 50mm Furring Channels on the ceiling and 1X 20mm RC on all the walls in the middle. I rekon we may need to add another strip of RC to the top and bottom of the walls - we then fix insulation to the existing corrugated walls and fix the plasterboard layers (2X Plasterboard, or Barrierboard) to the RC channels - so we need 20mm R-Channel for the walls, will need approx 40m of this, if this is deemed the best way?. (Not to sure if we will need to strengthen the existing structure with a steel framing to be able to support the extra mass of the insulation and plasterboard we intend to fix to it? - my feelings are 'yes')(Also, I found out that the shed is from outdoorworld, so im gonna go check out their showroom, maybe ask some questions? Would be interesting to see if anyone else has done any acoustic treatments to these kind of shed/steel buildings?!) R-channel on walls. R-channel on ceiling. 4. Wall Studs - either steel or timber will suffice. Timber has to be 35mmx75mm minimum, can get 100x50mm too, I guess the smaller stuff will be cheaper? I think dad may have a bit of timber for me down on the farm? Check this Aussie company/product out for acoustic steel framing: http://www.peeracousticstud.com/ 5. Ceiling Joists - 50mmX200mm timber. 6. Heavy Acoustic Curtain - for the vocal recording area. _________________________________________________________________ So it goes like this (from outside in): A.) Existing shed walls: need to be 'beefed' up. Need to dampen with some rigid insulation.? or maybe sprayed insulation? Add R-Channel to top and bottom to be able to fix, B.) Plasterboard (2X with green glue in between?) or BarrierBoard? (Not to sure if we will need to strengthen the existing structure with a steel framing to be able to support the extra mass of the insulation and plasterboard we intend to fix to it?) C.) Air Gap (20mm minimum). Fill with rockwool? (have i gone way to big here? the bigger the gap the better isolation, yes/no?) D.) Studio Walls - single stud, 2x Plasterboard on the inside face with Greenglue(in the studio), fill wall frame cavities with acoustic insulation. E.) Acoustic treatments - bass traps, acoustic panels, slat resonators, speaker soffits, ceiling clouds. I will also post this to the LRRecords Studio Design & Planning thread at johnsayers, and include photos and designs: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15727 ps - Have already collected lots of MDF, and furniture timber type materials, which will be for the speaker soffits, slat resonators, diffusors, etc. (room treatment). Also saw my dad the other weekend and he rekons he has lots of tools, a trailer and timber for me to come pick up from the farm down at Mt Barker. much dub :)

A friend of ours has recntly moved to rockingham and hooked up with a new fella whom is a brikies labourer. We had em over for a coupla drinks last friday and i showed the brikie mate the shed-studio plans and the basic MSM (mass-spring-mass) theory behind recording studios built with double wall, room within a room systems. We were talking building a brick wall as an option for the isolation wall. So brick work is probably one of the best isolation walls you can build because it is heavy. I have seen MSM designs with concrete blocks or bessa bricks filled with sand and sealed with an oil based paint, then an air cavity filled with Rockwool insulation or similar, and then still adding an interior wall with 2 X layers of the 16mm plasterboard (or anything rigid and heavy) to the wall and fill the stud cavities with insulation. check this forum post (and attached image): viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16533&p=116245&hilit=brick#p116245 So he rekons if i can get a trailer and pick up wasted bricks and left over bricks at building sites and he can help out and give me a heads up as to where to find spots, as he is out there working it every day. Also looking for bargains in the Quokka and at the Tip recycle shop. He rekons I need about 1200-1500 bricks, about 9-10 packs for all 4 walls for my 6.1m X 4.6m shed. I question the fuel economy of doing this? If I keep to the nearby Baldivis/Mundijong developing suburbs, then maybe feasible? THERE IS ALOT OF BRICKS GOING UP OUT THERE.(oops CAPS on). He rekons he can get the mud and sand for free. So if i collect the bricks and in the meantime prep the shed. Put up some rigid insulation and stuff to dampen the existing corrugated metal walls and fill any holes/gaps. Will have to use a mesh/chicken wire to hold this to ceiling? Put some special moisture stopping stuff on the concrete pad edges. His brickie boss will knock it up real quick, he rekons. Brickies cost about $350 per day! Then we put the brick wall hard up against the treated shed walls, air cavity, then it sounds like you may have enough timber and MDF to build the interior studio wall? We must try to replicate the design/theory (MSM) for the ceilings? (dont know if this is possible with bricks?)- so prob need more timber, insulation and plasterboard for the ceiling/s.

Brick is certainly a great alternative. Much greater mass and density. If you can do that, then great!

I have seen MSM designs with concrete blocks or bessa bricks filled with sand and sealed with an oil based paint, then an air cavity filled with Rockwool insulation or similar, and then still adding an interior wall with 2 X layers of the 16mm plasterboard (or anything rigid and heavy) to the wall and fill the stud cavities with insulation.

Exactly. That is the way to do it.

We must try to replicate the design/theory (MSM) for the ceilings? (dont know if this is possible with bricks?)-

The basic principle works the same with pretty much any construction material. It's the amount of mass and depth of the air gap that matter, not the material (within reason!). - Stuart -

Thanks for your quick reply soundman2020 :) Yep 95% heading towards the brickwall plan. Just gotta run the plans past the 'ol man, get down to the farm and get some materials, trailer and tools! cheers....

Its been a while since last post.... The studio is Built!! Well mostly.. the building(room) is done..Presently building speaker soffits, slat resonators and bass traps. Here is some pics: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8018/7152375797_a58ea79c68.jpg P1000364 by LRRecords, on Flickr Insulate and frame ISO Wall flush to existing shed walls,,)gotta move those switches( http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7221/7152378037_6774848ef4.jpg P1000382 by LRRecords, on Flickr Using the foam mats to decouple ceiling framing from shed centre truss.. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7208/7152377749_6bba1376f2.jpg P1000380 by LRRecords, on Flickr Filled door with the mega lead lined foam, then finis 16mm gyprock on one side = heavy. http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5194/7006286802_3c3bce48d9.jpg P1000378 by LRRecords, on Flickr Used polystyrene sheets for flush ceiling insulation.. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7046/7006286628_3e521d1aec.jpg P1000377 by LRRecords, on Flickr Studio wall framing...ANd our little access hole - hello sunlight! http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5339/7006286468_efed44bc8f.jpg P1000376 by LRRecords, on Flickr Door area.. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8145/7152376871_27b985d715.jpg P1000374 by LRRecords, on Flickr a corner... http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5446/7152376391_c8f50a3e3e.jpg P1000368 by LRRecords, on Flickr http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7178/7006285510_81bfc244d9.jpg P1000366 by LRRecords, on Flickr http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5192/7006285376_54d9d4ee76.jpg P1000365 by LRRecords, on Flickr http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8004/7006285016_108bf512fe.jpg P1000363 by LRRecords, on Flickr thanks Groggy :) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7114/7152378157_9909ae307d.jpg P1000383 by LRRecords, on Flickr R - Channel on ceiling - filled these with carpet and pyramid foam later.. Will be back with more photos and detail soon...!!

Speaker Soffits: Getting speaker soffits finished!!! and Working on acoustic treatments for the studio,,,also got half of the venting system finished yesterday (thanks groggy :)...maybe another post topic regarding the venting system ( and will get some photos). speaker soffits you can see the framing of the speaker soffits and how im lagging them ( will eventually fill top cavity with rockwool insulation/// can see how the first soffit (furthest in picture) built was a bit more hodge podge compared to the next , hopefully these slight differences won't affect the sound? you can see the acoustic hangers in the bottom cavity of the soffit and acoustic hanger on the (cluttered) building desk in the picture foreground.. speaker soffit close up speaker soffit to fit. see hard foam to float speaker, triangle peice is to pull thru power and speaker cable, plasterboard finish Groggy's soffit framing such a neater framing job than the 'little rascals',,,,framing attached to ceiling beams at the top thru the hard rubber/foammats stuff.. acoustic hangers randomly hung...in bottom speaker soffit cavity speaker cavity detail using those hard foam rubber mats to set speakers on. beefed - up the cavity with extra plaster pieces, no more gaps all seams and joins,, also drill holes top and bottom of cavity for airflow and cables access.. soffit acoustic hanger not a very good close-up... anywayzz,,, each soffit had four of these.... made with 2X folded and flattened cider carton boxes (thanks groggy), rockwool on both sides, covered with various materials and tied together with cable ties, and hung in bottom soffit cavity with screws rubber washers and cable ties//// before adding cornice at the tops, plaster and painting, adding port holes and air flow hole,,,also hanging acoustic absorbers on the bottom panels... Got a good monitor and monitor wall mount to install up on the wall in the middle there..!! ps - sorry bout the light - its all we got -- the electricity line to the studio got burnt (another story!!), so we are running temp light and extension cables... QUESTIONS:: 1. where is the optimal place to have the airflow hole on the soffit front baffle?? 2. how big does this need to be?? 3. has anyone more information on the port hole dimensions for the bottom of the soffit system>? cheers :)

whoops,, the p[hoto links dont work.... check pics here: speaker soffits