Mix Control Room in a Garage

Fist post so please be patient..... Location : Portland, OR US Space : Finished garage. 360 sq ft. Empty inside excepting washer/dryer and some storage bins. Dimensions 23' x 15'. Ceilings . 9' high (to 2x4 joists). Facing garage from outside there is a thin roll up door. To the right, south side, concrete block. To the left, north side, wood without insulation. Inside the washer/dryer located far east. Water heater southeast corner. Door to house northeast corner. Floor is concrete. Install should be room within room and not permanent. A room that is 13' long, 9' wide and 8' high would be great. Noise : Residential neighborhood (Sellwood). Facing garage, neighbor to south approx. 12' away. Very old lady, noise likely not issue. To north several attached villa style apartment homes owned by landlord. Directly east is house itself and directly west is road with no neighbors extremely close or directly behind there. I am foremost concerned with mix translation and absorption as I do not plan loud tracking. Music style is indie rock, folk, shoegaze so no super sub bass frequencies. Budget : $4000 for the right room. Long-term renting is an option. Gear : Soundcraft 6000 console (75" x 32" on stand), mac pro w/ ssl alphalink, 3 space rack with approx. 45 rack spaces of gear (1176, LA3A, Summit, Lexicon, etc). 3 sets of monitors (Mackie 824, Sonics Anima, Avantone mixcubes). Would love to soffet mount the mackies for tracking and lower bass work. Questions: 1) Is ventilation going to be an issue given the construction type and living in the pacific NW? 2) Is anyone willing to help design for a fee? 3) Assuming I have the help ready to go and access to materials, how quickly can I get something properly designed and installed realistically? 4) How should I handle ceiling? 5) Should I do anything with the floor? 6) I'm thinking just one door for entrance. Options? 7) Is there anyone locally here in Portland who would supervise for a modest fee? 8) Would install leave any marks? 9) Is soffet mounting speakers too difficult and costly for a first time non-permanent project? Thanks so much......Scott in PDX

There is an announcement at the top of the forum about what to do to assure getting as many responses as possible. The announcement leads to this post (click here). Actually, several people, who are experts on this forum, will most likely not reply if you don't do what is written in that post. Many others who are very helpful, will most likely not reply out of respect for the moderators' wishes. - Stuart -

"will most likely not reply out of respect for the moderators' wishes." And those wishes are? :) "1) Is ventilation going to be an issue given the construction type and living in the pacific NW?" Doesn't matter where you live are the construction type...hot and mostly air free rooms make for poor breathing... "2) Is anyone willing to help design for a fee?" Hell we will do it for free...look around :) "3) Assuming I have the help ready to go and access to materials, how quickly can I get something properly designed and installed realistically?" It takes about six months for the contractor who doesn't know anything about isolation construction to get their head around how to instruct workers...this assumes a back ground in construction, otherwise X2. It can take anywhere from a few days to a few months to upwards of a year to get a proper design, the adage "you get what you pay for", is the driving force. "4) How should I handle ceiling?" Explain what it is first, pictures...the whole nine yards. "5) Should I do anything with the floor?" Most likely not, assuming it is a garage concrete floor, one of the best places in an residential environment to start. "6) I'm thinking just one door for entrance. Options?" Room in room dictates two, one per wall assembly. "7) Is there anyone locally here in Portland who would supervise for a modest fee? " We can all supervise, we just need you to slow down and help us....to help you..

John Sayers does designs around the world and supports the construction and finishing without being on site so having someone local while nice , will certainly add to your costs. That said, your total budget is likely a lot less than the design fees so per Brien's post - you can get the answers you need for free in exchange for your sweat. You mention drums and guitar amps - that's about 110db and if optimistically you have 30db of isolation, you're still pumping 80db into your landlords residence... And sadly, sound doesn't know the difference between a small budget or a large budget so high isolation is costly either way.

gullfo wrote:

John Sayers does designs around the world and supports the construction and finishing without being on site so having someone local while nice , will certainly add to your costs. That said, your total budget is likely a lot less than the design fees so per Brien's post - you can get the answers you need for free in exchange for your sweat. You mention drums and guitar amps - that's about 110db and if optimistically you have 30db of isolation, you're still pumping 80db into your landlords residence... And sadly, sound doesn't know the difference between a small budget or a large budget so high isolation is costly either way.

Thanks so much for the replies. At this point I mostly do direct guitar along with a 63' Vibro Champ that isn't very loud. I also am leaning towards just an electronic drum kit and re-amping those sounds through tube gear, maybe overdubbing ride, etc. so my isolation issues may not be so bad. I really just need a basic one room design that would be simple, cost effective and sound decent inside the room itself.

You are still missing something rather important! Please check the announcement that I mentioned before one more time the announcement that I mentioned before one more time (click here). - Stuart -

"sound doesn't know the difference between a small budget or a large budget" good line...words to live by:)

Soundman2020 wrote:

You are still missing something rather important! Please check the announcement that I mentioned before one more time the announcement that I mentioned before one more time (click here). - Stuart -

Can you let me know what that might be?

Adjust you profile so that we know where geographically you reside. Click on "User Control Panel", above right.

I was referring to the paragraph about one third of the way down that post, in large bold colored letters, that says: "Edit your profile to include your location. This is very important, because this is a worldwide resource, and as such, material costs and availability vary widely. For example, masonry is cheaper than gypsum in some parts of the globe, whereas it's the exact opposite in other regions. We're not asking for your address or credit card number, just a country will do. Nothing says "I didn't bother to read or follow these instructions" like leaving your profile location blank!" - Stuart -

Ok, fixed that. I had just posted it at the top of the thread.

Thanks for fixing that, Scott, and welcome! First, a comment on something you said:

That west side could use some beefing up sound-wise.

Unfortunately, you can't beef up only one side: Sound is something like water: It spills out all over, even if the hole is on only one side. So beefing up just one side of the room won't work, as the sound will simply take the easy path out, through the other five sides. And since sound waves bend around objects that are smaller than the wavelength, low frequency sound escaping form the north, south, east and through the roof will simply bend around your entire house and be easily heard on the west. Plus, sound with shorter wavelengths might end up bouncing off other buildings, cars, trees, etc. on those sides, thus also being audible on the west. In other words, isolation a room is an "all or nothing" proposition: You have to do all five sides (including windows, doors and HVAC) to the same level of isolation. Anything less won't help, and you'll spend a lot of money for minimal results.

If I could make it soundproofed enough for my personal drum and guitar amp recording usage that would be great. Also open to electronic drums if soundproofing is too difficult and/or costly.

It might be possible to isolate your guitar amp enough, but unlikely that you'll be able to ply acoustic drums in there on that budget. Now for your questions:

1) Is ventilation going to be an issue given the construction type and living in the pacific NW?

Ventilating is always an issue in a studio. In order to isolate, you have to seal the room air tight, twice. Each leaf of yoru wall must be hermetically sealed. So if you plan to breath inside ( :shock: ) then you do need to think about HVAC. And of course HVAC means poking large holes in your sealed structure, which brings another series of treatment requirements, but it can be done.

2) Is anyone willing to help design for a fee?

It all depends: How much money do you have? :) Just kidding. It doesn't look like you have enough budget to pay a professional designer like John for his work and also still have enough money left over to actually build it. That sort of is the purpose of this forum: it is for folks who don't have enough money for that and are willing to go to the hassle of learning how to do the design work themselves. Of course, that means taking the time to learn the basics of acoustics, learn SketchUp, create their own designs and post them here for others to take a look at and offer suggestions for improvement. So if you have the time and the willingness to learn all this stuff and do the work yourself, then you don't really need to pay a designer. If you don't have the time or the inclination, then you might have to pay for that service, and there are a few people here who could help you with that.

3) Assuming I have the help ready to go and access to materials, how quickly can I get something properly designed and installed realistically?

Design could take a few days to a few weeks, or even months, depending on how complex it needs to be and how much of that you are going to do yourself. Construction could take a few more weeks to a few months, or even years, depending on how complex it is, how many people are working at once, their skills, the materials, how much money you have available at each point, and many other things. I guess that answer isn't much help, is it? :)

4) How should I handle ceiling?

Depends on what you want to do!

5) Should I do anything with the floor?

you said "Floor is concrete", so that's it: you are already done with the floor. Nothing else needed. Concrete makes a great acoustic floor. You might want to stain it for aesthetic reasons, but you don't have enough budget to do much else with it, and bare concrete is good just like it is.

6) I'm thinking just one door for entrance. Options?

That can work, but once again it all depends on the overall design, your goals, and other things. A studio isn't a bunch of independent things attached to each other: it is a system. Each part affects all the other parts, and they all work together in unison to achieve your goal. So it might be possible to go with only one door, depending on yoru isolation needs, but it is far more common to have two "back to back" doors, as Brien mentioned.

7) Is there anyone locally here in Portland who would supervise for a modest fee?

Like Brien said: You don't necessarily need someone locally. If you post your detailed designs here before you start, plus plenty of photos of what you are doing at each stage of the build, then we can "supervise" form where we are, spread all around the planet. The internet is a wonderful tool!

8 ) Would install leave any marks?

On you, on the house, or on your bank account? :) Seriously, if "not damaging the existing structure at all" is one of your goals, then that can be considered in your design goals. It MIGHT be possible to minimize marking existing structures, but it would most likely make things more difficult, more expensive, and less effective at isolating.

9) Is soffet mounting speakers too difficult and costly for a first time non-permanent project?

It isn't all that hard to soffit mount, and you can make a "modular" set up for that, if you design and build carefully, so that it can be dissembled and taken out easily. Once again, that adds to the design complexity, and the cost, but the benefits of soffit mounting are well worthwhile. - Stuart -

Hi guys, attached are some pics of the garage. After some research and talking to several people I have decided to just do a small room within a room design and not worry as much about soundproofing the garage. My thought is a room that is 9' wide by 13' long by 8' high with framing on the inside and drywall on the outside. Double 5/8" sheetrock on the outside, rock wool/mineral wool insulation and then fabric over that on the inside. I will be doing most of my personal recording with the hardwood floors and bathroom tile sound of the inside of the house and just using the control room for mixing, di stuff, perhaps my small guitar amps (Fender Champ sizes). Thoughts? Material sources in Portland, OR?

"I have decided to just do a small room within a room design and not worry as much about soundproofing the garage." That is proofing/isolating your environment. You want that garage door to go, yes? You are tired of that window, yes? Can you give actual measurements of the existing space...all boundaries that can and cannot be moved. Is that roof vented...and would you be willing to modify the gable vents and go to a ridge vent? There is a budget, yes?

xSpace wrote:

"I have decided to just do a small room within a room design and not worry as much about soundproofing the garage." That is proofing/isolating your environment. You want that garage door to go, yes? You are tired of that window, yes? Can you give actual measurements of the existing space...all boundaries that can and cannot be moved. Is that roof vented...and would you be willing to modify the gable vents and go to a ridge vent? There is a budget, yes?

Hi Brien, usable dimensions are 25x15x9' high. Roof is not vented. Budget is $4000 USD. I am renting so garage door must stay but I can take off the rails, build walls, etc. Would love to do something with the window but won't that create a third leaf? It just seems my budget will barely allow me to build a decent small one room much less attack the remainder of the garage. I am very open to ideas.

one thought then, if isolation isn't the priority - maybe do a room within a room as if finishing the garage - a set of 2x4 walls on the inside all around make the window and garage door openings framed then add another set of framing there that could be removed later. use pink insulation between the walls. seal the exterior walls and roof. over the window put in a 3/4" plywood and 2x drywall plug (you'll build something similar inside). on the ceiling - you might sister up the joists w 2x6 and using rc-2 or isolation clips and hat channel/furring strips put in your ceiling. i'd think 2x 5/8" drywall all around, or 1/2" x2 all around if thats more in the budget, worst case, one layer of 5/8". on the garage door - take it down along with all the brackets and store it all. build an exterior wall within that frame and put in a decent door (or not) and paint it to mimic the garage door. for the floor - build some isolation pads for the drums, amps, etc. for treatments - you're renting - plan on taking it with you so build treatments as modular components - soffit boxes etc as desired. worst case - start with plan old cloth covered absorption scattered around and some reasonable symmetry where you plan to mix. build up later when you have more budget. maybe if the isolation is handled as a "upgrade" to a finished garage, you could get the landlord to chip in some $? this could help offset some of the money for additional treatments.