Do I need to do double stud all walls in this situation

so i included a sketchup of my design and attached jpgs heres the link sketchup linkhttp://www.mediafire.com/?3ac14y2y88h7k44 first off this is a basement around the north, west, and east sides of the room is concrete with 2x6 studs the south side is empty space (storage, laundry, hvac) sound bleed into the storage space and upstairs is not an issue that being the case would i need to double stud out EVERY wall in the basement to achieve a say STC 68 (according to auralex) from my live room (left side) to my control room? (this of course being a space and money issue) would I be ok double studding with resilient channel ,5/8" + 1/2" drywall and sheetblock(auralex) sandwich JUST on the wall seperating my rooms? and then just resilient channel and the drywall sheetblock sandwich on all the other walls and ceiling? p.s. im not splaying my walls in the live room A. to save space B. i will treat it with homemade diffusors and traps thanks guys

whoops is this the right forum for this question? looks more like a build diary forum

whoops is this the right forum for this question?

Yeah, that's fine. I wish I could figure out how to move threads, but each time I think I got the right button, I'm scared that I'm gonna delete the thread by accident, so I don't push it! (The text is kind of ambiguous). So your thread can stay here. and we assume you WILL build it one day, so no problem! Anyway, about the questions:

sound bleed into the storage space and upstairs is not an issue

It doesn't matter: you have to do the same on all five sides of the room (4 walls, 1 ceiling). Sound is like cold air: It doesn't matter if you only leave one window open on your car when it is freezing cold outside, the entire car still gets cold inside. If you only do four sides of an MSM system, then you don't have ANY MSM system at all. Sound will simply leak around the other side. So it's not an option to leave one side incomplete, or only partially isolated, or isolated to a lower level. Once the sound gets through, it is through all over. You have to do all five sides to the same level.

would i need to double stud out EVERY wall in the basement to achieve a say STC 68 (according to auralex) from my live room (left side) to my control room?

Hang on a sec! You say that you already have an outer leaf, which is concrete, and that you have 2x6 stud frames next to that. Why do you want to "double-stud"? What does that mean? All that you need in order to isolate effective is a second leaf that is not coupled in any manner to the existing concrete walls, which is your outer leaf. If your existing 2x6 stud frame is NOT touching the existing walls or ceiling, then you are all set. Just put a couple of layers of 16mm drywall on that frame, for your second leaf, and you are done. However, if the 2x6 frame IS touching the walls and/or ceiling, then you need to take it down, move it over a bit, and re-build it so that it no longer touches anything.

would I be ok double studding with resilient channel

If you have a decoupled stud frame, then you do not need resilient channel (RC). The one and only purpose of RC is to decouple drywall from walls that are not already decoupled. Yours will be. You cannot "decouple" twice: once you are decoupled (by having a separate frame) then you are decoupled! No RC necessary. Save yourself some money!

,5/8" + 1/2" drywall

A myth. Mixing different thickness drywall buys you practically nothing in terms of isolation, and can actually cost you isolation. The theory is that the different surface densities help to flatten out the coincidence dip of the wall, but if you build the wall right the coincidence dip is so well isolated already that it doesn't matter, and it is in a part of the spectrum that isn't a problem anyway! On the other hand, by using then drywall (1/2") instead of thick (5/8") for the second layer, you have robbed yourself of mass, which you DO need for the low end, where the REAL problems lie. You have also added a thin flimsy rattling thing whose own resonant frequency is too high, to the detriment of overall isolation... In other words, forget the hype about needing to mix materials of thicknesses: it buys you nothing useful, and could cost you.

and sheetblock(auralex) sandwich

Sound waves don't care how much you pay for the mass in the wall. All they respond to is the mass itself. The cost is irrelevant. So if you have stacks of money to blow, then buy expensive mass. On the other hand, if you are like most of us here and don't have millions in the bank, then just buy the cheapest mass that will do the job: Plain old ordinary 5/8" drywall. Nothing better, for the price!

and then just resilient channel and the drywall sheetblock sandwich on all the other walls and ceiling?

How much isolation do you need? I mean, in real numbers: how many decibels of transmission loss are you aiming for? With that figure in mind, you can decide on the type of construction that will get you there, in your budget. You mentioned an STC of 67, which is pretty decent, but STC is actually not a good way of measuring isolation. It does not take into account low frequencies, such as drums, bass, keyboards, etc. It only deals with speech frequencies. So a wall rated STC 67 might be fantastic for blocking out the neighbors screaming at each other, but do nothing useful when they turn up Pink Floyd on the stereo... A better system for rating isolation is TL (transmission loss). So you need to come up with a number, and design your structure to meet that number. In any event, if you close of your south side with an outer leaf consisting of a stud frame with a couple of layers of 5/8 on it (thus completing your outer leaf envelope), then you can build an inner leaf within that (room in a room), which will consist of a stud frame around the entire room, including joists across the ceiling, and another two layers of 5/8 drywall on that frame (including the ceiling). That will get you in the ball park of 60 dB or more, depending on how carefully you build it (I'm assuming that the floor is concrete slab on grade: if not, then all bets are off).

p.s. im not splaying my walls in the live room A. to save space

You might want to re-think that. A lice room is better with a non-rectangular, non-symmetrical shape. I'd angle at least two of those walls. 6° is the recommended minimum angle.

B. i will treat it with homemade diffusors and traps

Those rooms don't look big enough to be able to use most types of diffusers. I'd go with slot walls and bass traps, plus the usual other stuff.

looks more like a build diary

It will be, one day soon! :) - Stuart -

Hang on a sec! You say that you already have an outer leaf, which is concrete, and that you have 2x6 stud frames next to that. Why do you want to "double-stud"?

by double stud I meant frame out another wall from the existing one, about 2 inches away from the perimeter, a " room within a room"

f your existing 2x6 stud frame is NOT touching the existing walls or ceiling, then you are all set

HAHA! i thought it was touching but i peeled back some of the vapour barrier and insulation and its not! I got 1 1/2" space in there. I guess im all set. OK i did a little more research. How about two 5/8" drywall with Green Glue (maybe? its cheaper than sheetblock) inbetween, no resilient channel? I will be tracking loud drums, I know this for sure. What kind of transmission loss do you recommend to be able to accurately monitor from the control room without too much low frequency leaking through the walls?

I'd angle at least two of those walls. 6° is the recommended minimum angle.

OK I will, which ones do you recommend?

I'd go with slot walls

also which ones would you recommend to make slot walls? thanks for the reply! shaun

heres an update. i splayed the long wall at the bottom left 6 deg and the short top left wall 11 deg How is it looking overall I did the room ratio calculator for my control room and it was very good. Excellent but not perfect that little alcove in the top left is for a fireplace but im gonna make it a mic/stand/cable locker and should i do any slat sections in the control room rather than traps? I was planning on a bass and corner trap system at the back with diffusors in the center of the back wall traps on the side walls and a cloud over my mix/listening position oh yeah and a couch at the back

HAHA! i thought it was touching but i peeled back some of the vapour barrier and insulation and its not! I got 1 1/2" space in there. I guess im all set.

Great! But are they attached to the existing ceiling? If not, then you are fine, but if they ARE attached to the ceiling the you need to cut the tops down a bit to de-couple up there. If you have to do that, then cut them down far enough that you can get your inner-leaf ceiling joists attached easily.

OK i did a little more research. How about two 5/8" drywall with Green Glue

Excellent! GG is good stuff, and certainly will help with your low end.

I will be tracking loud drums, I know this for sure. What kind of transmission loss do you recommend to be able to accurately monitor from the control room without too much low frequency leaking through the walls?

Loud drums is around 115 dB. What NC curve are you planning for the control room? Assuming 30, you would theoretically need something like 85 dB of isolation to make the drums inaudible. That's a real tall order! If you can get 65 dB of isolation, that would put your drums at around 50 dB in the CR. That might or might not be acceptable, depending on your criteria. If you are monitoring at 85 dB in the control room, that should be fine, since you'd be around 35 dB above the bleed, but once again, it all depends on what is acceptable for YOU. OK so 65 dB is doable for a wall without too much hassle, but its tough to get a window up to that level You'll need pretty thick laminate glass and a very healthy air gap. Thick laminate glass is expensive, so you might want to think about reducing the size of your window, to save some money. Try quoting 3/4" laminate glass in your area, to find out how much you can afford, then base your window size on that. You might be able to get away with 3/4 in one leaf and 1/2 in the other, so quote both sizes. You might also be able to get away with other types of glass (not laminate). But look around and see what you can afford.

OK I will, which ones do you recommend?

The best idea is to do two adjacent walls, so that you don't have any parallel surfaces. It doesn't really matter which two. I reckon I'd do pretty much what you show in your update, but I'd substitute the one on the left for the one at the top. So you'd have the bottom and left ones angled.

How is it looking overall

Looking good to me!

I did the room ratio calculator for my control room and it was very good. Excellent but not perfect

What are your dimensions for the CR?

and should i do any slat sections in the control room rather than traps?

I would, yes.

I was planning on a bass and corner trap system at the back with diffusors in the center of the back wall traps on the side walls and a cloud over my mix/listening position oh yeah and a couch at the back

I'd skip the diffusers, and make the back wall absorbent. For your bass traps, maybe superchunks would be a good idea. It looks like you are planning to soffit-mount your speakers, which is great, but you could try to make your soffits panels wider, for best effect. What speakers are you planning to use in there? - Stuart -

What are your dimensions for the CR?

18x12x7.6 it is a very close (almost bang on) ratio of 2.33x1.6x1 that i found on ethan winers site. l x w x h

make the back wall absorbent

so fill it with insulation, put up some cloth and a few vertical slats to hide the cloth seams?

I'd skip the diffusers

but they look so cool!

It looks like you are planning to soffit-mount your speakers

no im not actually i just used those components from johns design for design purposes. My speakers are Focal CMS 65, im not even sure those are big enough to warrant soffit mounting. so what about the cloud in the control room? How big should it be? I want to mount my lights in it to cut down on ceiling holes. and what about treatment for the live rom? slot resonate walls, absorbent walls etc one more thing surface mount receptacles or flush mount? I dont mind the looks of surface mount if it saves making holes in the wall thanks alot Stuart Shaun