Control room..... on a stage?

Hope u all had a great Xmas! I have 2 questions: 1. I have an old village hall... dimensions inside are 10m (33ft) x 17m (56ft).... within the space is an old wooden stage 3m (10ft) depth x 10m (33ft) roughly 1m (3ft) high. The stage is solid! Underneath the stage is not being used. (space / storage - @ 1m x 3m x 10m open space) My budget plan (in order to be developed into a long term plan) is to move my project studio from the house to the hall. Why? My son needs the room as a bedroom! The hall's floor is raked (angled), over 17m it has a 1m gradient.... but the stage floor is level. Instead of pulling the place apart (money / time wasting) I fancy building a control room and vocal booth on the stage.... using the rest of the hall as live room (fitted with DIY absorbers/diffusors accordingly) I understand the sound isolation / acoustic needs for control room / v.booth, but not too sure on building a CR on a wooden stage (planks approx 1inch) with sturdy wooden columns, with space below. Should i fill the space beneath with hanging bass traps / absorbers etc? Any do's / don'ts on this? Remember, this is a budget solution to move out of the house quickly.... without the need to do too much work considering the size of the building! = loads of £$€!..... and I don't have loads of £$€. 2. Even though it's a quick budget solution, I might as well get the best results with the dimensions on offer... so I'm thinking of using the Sepmeyer ratio 1:1.14:1.39. The stage offers 3m width so.. unless I extend the width.... (1.14 =) 3m..... giving me a height of (1 =) 2.63m, length (1.39 =) 3.66m..... 2.63m:3m:3.66m (This is for inside. I will build extra leaf on outside accordingly...) How do these dimensions look to u guys? Will it leave enough space for acoustic treatment? Would it be worth not to go with the ratios?... in order to gain extra length? Any other recommendations based on a 3m width?

welcome! how high is the existing ceiling over the stage? the main challenge with the stage will be the flanking from the CR to the vox booth because of the low but solid mass of the stage. plus the stage may have any number of resonant properties to consider. depending on getting the stage to a low resonance, you could float the floor of the CR / booth to decouple or perhaps consider some concrete on the stage if it could support it. possible cut the stage into separated floors and add a layer of concrete? then dampen the internal cavity underneath?

Hi gullfo, thanks for the reply. Sorry, yes... missed one measurement! Ceiling height of hall is approx 4.2m. Minus the stage (1m) = 3.2m of ceiling on the stage... This is only up to the false ceiling though, the ceiling is fully insulated with fibreglass wool (4inch) and polystyrene tiles (1inch)... there's an extra 2.8m above too!! (...yes spoilt for space, but not enough £$€!!!!! grrrrrr)

gullfo wrote:

possible cut the stage into separated floors and add a layer of concrete? then dampen the internal cavity underneath?

What do you mean by 'cut'?... as in layer? Dampen... with hanging bass traps? Here are some pics of the current set up.

If I had access to that place I wouldn't build any walls at all. I bet with some basic treatment to reduce slap/flutter that room would sound better than most "studios".

cut as in "cut" into separate pieces and reinforce each. that said, seeing the photos, i have to agree with stuntbutt - keeping as much as possible intact would be better. one option may be more effective - build your CR on the end far away from the stage. build a frame and pour some concrete to create a level space for the CR and booth. leave the rest of the place intact as a live room with a stage has many possibilities as such rehearsal space, live shows, dance, theater and having the CR and booth in the back give you a nice option for controlling house sound, foley effects during a show, etc. etc.

Wow! I did not expect that! Thanks for your time gullfo. I fully appreciate what you guys are suggesting.... but there's more to the building than the pics... the only entrance / exit so far is a double door on the wall opposite stage (see pic), leading to another room and entrance corridor. The other room will be made into a kitchen / chill out area and a room for hire upstairs (to pay the mortgage!). So... looking at your design gullfo, the only acces to the live room would be via the CR (awkward for large equipment - drums / marshall stacks etc). I fully understand that having a floating / concrete floor (not on stage) would be of major benefit...... but I am seriously looking for a budget solution to move my project studio out of the house... and to record a demo album (of my own) Also... I understand that the stage would be great for shows, theatre etc... but I really don't wanna go down that avenue - licences, H&S etc etc..... + there is a place for that in town (run by a friend) This hall is solely for creative purpose (hopefully for semi commercial use in years to come, budget permitting!!) Current thinking: 1. Maybe I could tear the stage down...... and build the CR there?... I am not attached to the stage... it can go! But that means more work (demolish + concreting!).... where my original idea means - build straight onto the stage (no demolish + concrete) 2. Use concrete slabs, instead of mix on the stage? All thoughts / ideas appreciated. *Apologies if this should be in the Studio Design thread*

didn't see the door... no reason you cannot separate the CR and vox with a hallway between them - make each a bit smaller to accommodate or turn the CR towards the stage and make it extend longer into the space. i'd still keep the stage for later when you turn that space into a live room (never know when some band you're recording wants a video made there... and even if you're not looking to expand access to the community etc). i'd still go with the concrete leveling to make the base for each room on that end. the only reason i'd tear down the stage would be if that floor under it was flat and ready to build my CR and vox on.

gullfo wrote:

didn't see the door...

I didn't mention either... :oops: Underneath the stage is flat (no rake/angle)... and there are no wooden blocks either, like the rest of the hall floor.... But I must stress..... I am looking for a simple CR / VB to move out of the house ASAP.... and the quickest way I see forward is building on the stage. After doing this... I might coonsider your idea gullfo... I could even build a temp. CR VB on the stage... and then (budget permiting) concrete the floor for a proper CR VB. Then, I could always knock the temp CR VB (on stage) down and the stage will still be there... If I go ahead and build on the stage, what kind of problems would I run into with that cavity beneath? And how would I solve it? Short term.... Seriously... it's hard to explain my urgency to move out of the house via forum.

the temp idea could work recognizing that you run the risk of some resonances due to the stage - so put the isolation walls on neoprene to decouple it and build a floor inside the room with 2" rigid insulation and 2x 3/4" MDF + finish wood surface (could even be finished plywood. use some baffle boxes to exchange air with the surrounding room. use rigid insulation absorbers and/or slats to treat.

You're a superstar gullfo! Really didn't expect detailed diagrams.... thank you. Gut instinct tells me to place the CR / VB stage side - makes sense with entrance / exit for musicians. So maybe I'll use your idea (gullfo) for a workshop and office (separated with corridor) that end, build regs would want a fire lobby anyway - the corridor could act as this. But, building an extra office and w.shop would leave less space for live room though.... So... back to the options a) build on stage... or b) rip the stage out and concrete the area - then build CR / VR. hmmmm.... i'll check out the price for concrete slab... Dilema! I suppose.... if I go for option b)... it would be a permanent fixture, no need to tear the temp job down, and rebuild!.... hmmmmmmmm :? Gonna do a quick sketchup plan of my current idea..... back soon.

Here's a rough diagram of my current idea (for future set up).... I understand that by adding an office / w.shop decreases the live room space.... but it does create a sound isolation / fire lobby from rest of building (kitchen through the doors)... + build regs would want a fire exit somwhere! What do you think? CR VB could be bigger... sorry.. a sketchup novice!

i think that works.

Hey Gullfo.... have you based the measurements on a perticular ratio? Have a great new year.. or..... as we say in Wales - 'Blwyddyn Newydd Dda!'

no deep calculations as i was trying to maximize the room space for the CR as the volume is low (1100/ft3 - 32/m3) but you want to try to avoid making the ceiling height and room width too square - either going taller (10ft/3050mm) or lower (8ft/2440mm). no ideal ratios but it's the space you have on the stage. one option would be to make inside-out walls and gain an extra 7" (175mm) between the isolation drywall layers and lose some isolation over a double-sided wall (using the space inside the hall as an air gap). this could help with the bass trapping (as it will leak into your hall). on the vox booth keep the double sided walls.

Cool! Cheers gullfo. I fancy ripping the stage out. This gives flexible width size and a height up to 4.2m (14ft). Depending where I put the fire exit, I could have the full 10m (33ft) length for CR and VB (fire exit in LR), or roughly 8m (26ft) (fire exit near the VB, as in the latest diagram I've done) Putting the fire exit in the live room makes the building 'untidy' from the outside... So.... (typing as I think) it would be wise, from a planning app. perspective... that the fire exit is installed using the last window (stage side). So.... with the dimesions H 4.2m (14ft) x W ?m (?ft) x L 8m (26ft).... what would be the best ratio / dimensions for CR VB? I would love to use the Sepmayer ratio 1:1.14:1.39 for the CR Unless somebody comes up with a better ratio with the dimensions in question...... :D

if you went with 11ft (3.35m) ceiling and 1:1.28:1.54 you would end up with a control room of 2624/ft3 (good) and it might fit (width-wise) in the space. this would then also leave plenty of space for a booth. later if you make the control room on the far end, these could readily become two nice isolation rooms for the live room. 1.00 11.00 h 1.28 14.08 w 1.54 16.94 d

Been sketching! I prefer to keep things to metric round numbers.... so based on your idea (gullfo) of 11ft height... I've gone for 3m height (almost 10ft). I've based everything on a 38% listening position and a 60˚ triangle between listening position and monitors / soffits. Current points: 1. Not too sure on which door to use.... 2. Ignore drywall detail but have put sufficient width in the walls... 3. I'm going to concrete the base... therefore = would blocks be better than stud? For the basic walls... 4. Not sure on back wall trap depth / side slats The lobby to the left is the fire exit, going to the outside ramp. Maybe I'm trying to keep too much to the 'book'?? Scrutiny welcome!

i'd put the door in the door#2 spot. if block is less expensive for you, then i'd use that. otherwise just stick with the framed wall approach. when planning your walls remember you want to have an isolation wall on the top wall to isolate from the outside (create a double leaf wall there)

Thanks gullfo, This is turning into a bigger project than I thought..... but probably worth it in the long term. Future wise, there's more room above the false ceiling as well... if one day I want to build on top of CR / VB.... block would be structurally sound. I suppose I could use bigger wooden frames for structure too... I'll have to wait until Tuesday for pricing! Bank Holiday tommorrow.... grrr