FINAL DESIGN before installing --> pls help to check is ok

Dears, I've done all my research and study. After 6 months i've arrived at the final measures and schematics of my studio design. Carpenters have finished the raw room. It's underground and no need of neighborhood insulation. My only scope is SOUND TREATMENT to ahve the room sound dope ;). After reading all the posts and leveraging the John's magnificent components.skp I've adapted it to the room, and the monitors dimension (Ada A8K). I strongly suggest to everyone that want to build a john based studio to verify that monitors fits their adaptation!!! it took weeks to fine tune it It' s attaced in the pic. Can the expert let me know it it looks ok and i can start build? Thanks Ale ps: I'm also putting two cloud traps as per the other john designs to avoid parallel reflection with the floor

no one? just need to know if thigs are ok especially the back wall absorber and dimension of the whole thanks Ale

not much we can do about the dimensions now because the isolation shell is done. the overall design looks good. i'd recommend getting REW or equiv software and doing some tests to see how the room is responding in order to refine any treatment ideas.

Sad to say, but the dimensions are terrible. The room has an almost-square profile (2.21 x 2.25), fails two out of the three key tests cited by BBC engineers for minimum acceptability, and is classified by Bob Golds calculator as being a "A worst case scenario calculated by RPG". I'd really, really, really try to adjust either the width or the height as much as possible to get away from that ratio. If the outer shell is already built, then your only options are to make the room narrower or lower the ceiling. - Stuart -

Thanks, I've seenthe "worst case scenario" stuff... i'm planning to install some cloud absorber that will lower the height by 20 cm. Would this work to limit the issues? Ale

i'm planning to install some cloud absorber that will lower the height by 20 cm

Unfortunately, no, that won't help. The room ratio is the hard, massive, rigid, surfaces of the inner-leaf walls, not the surface of the treatment. Modes terminate on the actual wall surfaces, not on clouds, bass traps, diffusers, or other treatment. - Stuart -

Ale I've never calculated a room mode. People, and the posters here, go on and on about them but in none of my designs have I ever stopped to work out the modes and relative room dimensions. Can we pullleese put this BS to rest.!! I realise I'm crossing everyone's belief system but really, it's not important and only applies to rectangular boxes. I've never designed a studio/control room in a rectangular box.

Dears, thanks so much for your preliminary inputs. I've kept reading and I've decided to give a massive update to the material i'm providing you to help me better. Thanks in advance. I've tried to make it the most visual that i could as flipping through the forum i've seen that when is visual is easier. I've the following questions 10 POWER QUESTION, that are asked in the below AND with attached picture for visual and word explanation. i've seen btw, that those are the most asked question around the forum and not always there is a visual aid to ask. i hope this will also help other people. Thanks in advance to help me. Alessandro 1) BAFFLE LENGTH vs DESK/video REFLECTION ABSORPTION --> see pic 2) SPEAKER ON STANDS or ON SHELVES within the SOFFIT? --> See pic 3) SPEAKER ARE AIRTIGHT IN THE SPEAKER BOX --> see pic 4) SPEAKER BOX IS AIRTIGHT WITH BAFFLE OR THERE IS SPACE+RUBBER? --> see pic 5) SOFFIT MOUNT NEEDS TO BE COMPLETELY AIR TIGHT (NO)? ARE SO THE SLAT RESONATOR (YES)? --> see pic 6) IS INSULATION IN SLAT ON THE WALL SIDE OR ON THE SLOT SIDE? --> SEE PIC 7) HOW DO I SEAL PARTS TOGETHER AND TO THE WALL/FLOOR? --> SEE PIC 8) HOW ARE THE CLOUDS POSTITIONED, VERTICAL OR HORIZONTAL --> SEE PIC 9) HOW IS THE AIR CIRCULATION FOR POWERED MONITOR DONE IN DETAIL? --> SEE PIC 10) HOW TO MOUNT ADA A8X IN BOX OR IN BAFFLE ?--> SEE PIC

No one? am i missing some info to help you? Thanks Ale

day jobs ya know?

tripiale wrote:

1) BAFFLE LENGTH vs DESK/video REFLECTION ABSORPTION --> see pic

the baffle length technically extends down to the port opening. so the absorptive face can be whatever height you need to kill off reflections from your desk. generally you want your monitors acoustic center to be around your ear height sitting or a bit higher.

tripiale wrote:

2) SPEAKER ON STANDS or ON SHELVES within the SOFFIT? --> See pic

either. blocks with sand are popular. creating an inner shelf also works.

tripiale wrote:

3) SPEAKER ARE AIRTIGHT IN THE SPEAKER BOX --> see pic

speaker - needs venting but around the sides, top and bottom you want to have a snug fit but decoupled so vibrations are not transferred from the speaker to the frame.

tripiale wrote:

4) SPEAKER BOX IS AIRTIGHT WITH BAFFLE OR THERE IS SPACE+RUBBER? --> see pic

leave a small 3mm space between the speaker box and baffle plate. seal with caulk. same for around the edges of the speaker.

tripiale wrote:

5) SOFFIT MOUNT NEEDS TO BE COMPLETELY AIR TIGHT (NO)? ARE SO THE SLAT RESONATOR (YES)? --> see pic

soffit doesn't need to be air tight but it cannot hurt to caulk around to ensure a good flow from the bottom port to the top vent. sealing the slat cavity is critical.

tripiale wrote:

6) IS INSULATION IN SLAT ON THE WALL SIDE OR ON THE SLOT SIDE? --> SEE PIC

rigid insulation inset 1-2" from the back of the slats. fill the rest of the space behind with light insulation.

tripiale wrote:

7) HOW DO I SEAL PARTS TOGETHER AND TO THE WALL/FLOOR? --> SEE PIC

caulk. caulk is your friend. :mrgreen:

tripiale wrote:

8) HOW ARE THE CLOUDS POSTITIONED, VERTICAL OR HORIZONTAL --> SEE PIC

typically - width wise to cover as much space as needed over the desk. you can use several and various angles to achieve the right level of absorption. option 2

tripiale wrote:

9) HOW IS THE AIR CIRCULATION FOR POWERED MONITOR DONE IN DETAIL? --> SEE PIC

the speaker box needs to have openings - top and bottom to allow for air circulation. you also need space in the filler being the soffit to allow air to flow up to the vent in the top of the baffle plate. sort of like option one - check on your speaker manufacturer for information on air space requirements to determine if you need an open back or not.

tripiale wrote:

10) HOW TO MOUNT ADA A8X IN BOX OR IN BAFFLE ?--> SEE PIC

go with the flush face - option 2

Thanks so much! you are my hero... sorry for the push but with the time lag i'm getting confused ;) didn't want to be rude.. very clear, but still need cople of clarification

gullfo wrote:

tripiale wrote: 3) SPEAKER ARE AIRTIGHT IN THE SPEAKER BOX --> see pic speaker - needs venting but around the sides, top and bottom you want to have a snug fit but decoupled so vibrations are not transferred from the speaker to the frame.

Understand the top and bottom need to be snug fit and decoupled.. but do not got what you mean for Venting around SIDES: do you mean that the box just need to be a bit loose on the side panels so air can flow from the room via sides of the speaker (between speakers and box) or you mean that the back need some opneing to get air to the transormers?

gullfo wrote:

tripiale wrote: 4) SPEAKER BOX IS AIRTIGHT WITH BAFFLE OR THERE IS SPACE+RUBBER? --> see pic leave a small 3mm space between the speaker box and baffle plate. seal with caulk. same for around the edges of the speaker.

I'm not 100% clear on this. John always says that we MUST go for the MOST RIGID solution.. the baffle should be an 'extension' of the speaker.. like it is a bigger speaker box.. am i missing someting or your two position are different?

gullfo wrote:

tripiale wrote: 9) HOW IS THE AIR CIRCULATION FOR POWERED MONITOR DONE IN DETAIL? --> SEE PIC the speaker box needs to have openings - top and bottom to allow for air circulation. you also need space in the filler being the soffit to allow air to flow up to the vent in the top of the baffle plate. sort of like option one - check on your speaker manufacturer for information on air space requirements to determine if you need an open back or not.

sp you suggest to go for option 1 and work the insulation fill in the top part in a way that let air flow from the opening to the back of the speaker. right? thanks so much for the time you are spending to help... i'll start to build on week of 20 dec.. and will post all the diary... (once i've solved my last doubts ;)) Ale

the speaker should be wrapped all around - top, bottom and sides and fit snug (rigidly) but not tight (so you avoid the vibrations going into the frame) otherwise use a separate stand internally. true enough but you don't want the speaker to necessarily contact the baffle plate - you make the speaker sit rigidly, you make the baffle sit rigidly, but you join them "softly" so the seal is there but the vibration transfer is none or minimal. if option one represents an opening though the filler to allow air flow, then yes.

regarding the clouds, would this a good solution? (i've a 2.20 height ceiling and would not want to make it even shorter with very hard angled clouds or very large ones)

If you can, you can drop and angle the front cloud since you aren't standing there... Then you can use that space for a super chunk on the top wall-corner.

gullfo wrote:

If you can, you can drop and angle the front cloud since you aren't standing there... Then you can use that space for a super chunk on the top wall-corner.

would the below approach work to address your input? I would leverage some bass traps in foam i've today.. i would hang them to the ceiling..and than angle extend the cloud absorber as per the design below Work?

it can't hurt to try and then if you need more you can unhook the cloud and install more.

Two extra doubts: A) CAN I PUT my second pair of monitors (just bought the ADM A8x but know so my alesis M1 MK2 that want to keep them for control check) on the desk as per the picutre? (i've put from above and from side view) --> will i have too bad acoustic issues? (interfiering with the direct sound+ relfleciton) B) can i place the VIDEO on the low part of the desk or it will be too close to the listneing position interfering with the direct sound? (better on the back of the desk so i can get better direct sound form speaker?) --> pls see pic Thanks ale

the speakers on the desk - if you can put them on stands behind the desk it would be better. if not, the put some isolation pads under them to decouple from the desk and elevate a bit. vertical is usually best but sometimes you have to compromise to avoid putting them in the way of the soffit mounted speakers. you will likely get reflections from the Alesis monitors off the desk. the video monitor looks like you are out of the direct path from the wall speakers but if you can put the monitor closer to the front wall it would be better so as to avoid mid-HF diffraction.

Dears, I’m in the next weeks going to buy the materials..I’ve some doubts on type and specifics. I try to report below my knowledge based on the search on the forum. Can you please correct / add missing on the below in order to help me avoid wasted money? Thanks Ale 1) SIDE/BACK PANELS: (based on john’s components.skp all the side and back panels) Thickness: 2 cm Material: ? (MDF?) 2) BAFFLE: Thickness: 3 cm Material: ? 3) SLATS: (side and back panels from the above. I’m going for a broad band absorber) Thickness: 100mm slat/2,5mm slot, 50mm slat/5mm slot, 25mm slat/10mm slot and start over, top to bottom. Thinking also to change thickness of the same size (like 100mm x 10, 100mm x 20… etc). would this work? Need to change also thickness? Material: ? 4) CLOUDS FRAME: Thickness: 2 cm Material: ? 5) INSULATION: - Rigid: yellow insulation (no matter if Rockwool or fiberglass) a. Thickness 100mm (on SAE site working at 99% on all freq). Need to vary? b. Minimum @ 40/50 kg m  the higher the better? - Soft: pink insulation, kg/m? 6) Caulk : whatever caulk. But a lot  7) CLOTH (for clouds / slat / flush mount in the bottom part to avoid desk reflection): assume all the same, am I right? Any specific material or characteristics? 8) DESK: I’m planning to construct my desk based on the skp from a forum member (the desk is the one in my design in the beg of the post): as per design is a 13mm thick wood mainly. Any suggestion on the material I should use? (is the thickness right?) 9) Any other crucial material I’m forgetting about? Dears, love this site.. going to dedicate the first single out of the new studio to the forum. Swear it! :shot: Ale

for baffle - use 25mm MDF, for slats, 25mm-40mm depending on specs. use hardwood, pine, or MDF. for "panels" use 1/2" (12mm) plywood. for the back panel of the soffits (lower baffle extension really) use 16mm plywood.for cloud framing 1-by (19mm) lumber. the rigid insulation - 100mm @ 48kg/m3 or thereabouts. for isolation wall air space, normal light (pink) insulation works (12-16kg/m3). non-hardening caulk. caulk is your friend :) for cloth, if you can breath through it, it should be good. for exposed cloth - fire retardant is a must. painting the framing to match the cloth color helps hide them. stick with the formula on the slat/slot ratios. wider slots tend to impact higher frequencies and might not be want you need.

Thanks so much. Seems very clear. I'll check those in detail and come back if any doubt. Main doubt i have now is CAN I TRAT THE WOODS with COVERING PAINT (like transparent to make wood slick) or it will change the acoustic treatment (e.g. More HF refraction for example?) Ale

yes, painted etc can increase the HF reflectivity but that can be a good thing.

Got it! Fantastic.... Last minute doubts... pls see below pic for reference: Question 1) Can i put a superchunk on the door so i can still open it (enter the studio.. pretty findametal feautre :) but still have a corner cuk in the back? any specifc indication to do this? Question 2) THe back panels in whic direction shoud be like pic 2 or 3?

maybe make the superchunk on a frame and put hinges on it to swing it into place but also so when the door is opened it pushes out of the way. otherwise, just get the superchunks up in the wall-ceiling and wall-floor spaces where it's not in the way and put a large 4" thick absorber on the door.

...I'm not clear.. i've seen on many post that Supechunck-door... is that something wronG? Morevoer can you help me with the quesiton 2? back panels towards in-room or out-room? Thanks sooooo much!