Layout feasibility for new studio build in Bay Area, CA

Hi all, I just signed up for the forum today with the hope that I can tap into this excellent source of knowledge and seek some guidance regarding a new studio I'm seriously considering designing and building with a friend. We both currently have studios in the same light industrial neighborhood in the San Francisco Bay Area. His studio is a bit more professional looking than mine though. :wink: He currently focuses on recording rap/hip-hop and other vocal-centric artists, whereas my studio is aimed more at rock bands and small ensembles of live musicians. We've been talking for a while about pooling our resources and creating a space designed for recording loud live bands (e.g. rock drums / guitar). Basically I'd get a new studio and he'd get a second studio to expand his business. His landlord informed him last week that the unit adjacent to his current studio will become available in the next month or two. So we have a really great opportunity provided that we can come up with a feasible layout that meets our goals. We looked at the unit and took some basic measurements. A complete build-out will definitely be required. Luckily for us, my partner has a background in construction. I think his family has a contractor business so material costs will hopefully be discounted. I just purchased a copy of the Rod Gervais book to get us started with the ins/outs of studio construction details. And of course I've been reading this forum like a madman. :D Here are our goals and design requirements:

• The studio must be well isolated from his current studio and outside sound sources.
• There should be a control room, large tracking room, two iso booths, a bathroom, a "lounge", and storage. I'd like to maximize useable recording space and have the control room be large enough to be both comfortable and acoustically good.
• The studio will be primarily for the recording and mixing of 4 and 5-piece ensembles involving things like drums, amplified guitars/bass, keyboards, piano, and vocals. It will likely be used to record rock, jazz, blues, and hip-hop where live musicians playing acoustic instruments are involved.
• The main live room should be a good sounding drum room and should allow a 4/5-piece band to perform within it.
• One of the iso rooms should be decent sounding vocal booth in addition to recording guitar amps. The second iso room will be mainly for guitar amps.
• I have a full size upright piano that will live at this studio as well as a Yamaha YG-45D stage organ.
• I have a decent collection of guitar amps, speaker cabs, and FX pedals that will also live at this studio.
• I have two tape decks (MCI JH-110, Studer A807) which will live in the control room. I can deal with their noise so I don't believe a machine room is necessary.
• There will be two main equipment racks and a 40 channel split console in the control room in addtion to a couple computers.
• We don't want bands loading gear through the control room if possible.
• If possible we'd like the bathroom to be easily accessible without having to stop a take.

Here are some design constraints and space details:

• The approximate size of the unit is 39x26x14 feet.
• There is a slight pitch to the roof (slightly higher on the east end). We expect to drop the ceilings as needed for the best acoustics in each room. There is also a skylight near the northern center of the unit.
• On the southwest corner there is the main door to the unit. In the northwest corner there is a large roll-up door (shown as long notch in pic...forgot to place a door into the live room on that wall...oops!). Between those two there is a window, which we are okay with building a wall directly in front of.
• The unit has HVAC that must be rerouted and acoustically treated.
• The floor is a concrete slab. We intend to do an acid etch or stain for the entire studio. We do not intend to float any floors or do anything other than concrete for cost reasons.
• The south and west side outer building walls are cinder block. All the other existing unit walls are stud/sheetrock construction. To the east of this unit is my partners current studio (butts up against his bathroom/kitchen/lounge). His control room is north east of this unit as shown on the pic. On the north side is a neighboring unit which we will want to isolate ourselves from.
• The toilet and sink is smack dab in the middle of the unit on the east wall and cannot be moved. I measured 55" from sink to north wall.

Based on all of this I made an attempt to create a layout in SketchUp. It's a little rough, but I think it should get my ideas across. I must say that as a mechanical engineer who uses CAD every day I found SketchUp to not work how my brain is conditioned to think about 3D modeling. But I'll learn. :mrgreen: I tried to design everything around the control room, which I based on a 1:1.26:1.59 ratio (height would be 10.39 ft based on dimensions shown). From there I tried to maximize the use of recording space while taking into account lines of sight and access to various rooms, especially bathroom and lounge. I'm looking for any kind of feedback, help, insight, and inspiration the community here is willing to throw at me. If I can come up with a solid plan/layout then I think we'll move forward on getting the space and turning this into a reality. I need to talk budget with my partner but let's say <$20k for now. thanks all, Brad

You have a few major issues with your layout - not the least of which is that it does not meet the requirements for handicapped accessibility........... You plan has to first take that into account - and then - with the remaining space you can plan your studio - if you are seriously looking for this - then the best recommendation I can give you would be to hire a professional to design your space - your specialty is music - not design......... Sincerely, Rod

Hi, Couple of thoughts. 1) there is a ton of dead space in your design with the hallway and soundlock. 2) the sightlines into your live rooms are lacking. How are the rest of the band going to watch through that window? 3)too many doors between the rooms. unless you need a running start after you tell the singer the truth about the last vocal take, the maze of doors to get back to the control room..... 4you better hope none of the musicians has been holding their bladder because they have to go through the control room to get to the can. 5) think about fire. 6)Every time someone in the lounge wants a smoke... I would not rent this unless I could move the washroom. I would want my lounge to have a direct route outside and be connected to the washroom. Sorry for a less than positive post, Steve

Hello, Thanks for the response guys. I appreciate all feedback both positive and negative so keep it coming. I definitely wouldn't want to dive into something that is going to be a rat's nest of problems. Rod--I think handicap access is something that I could address if I educated myself a little. I just need to read up on the requirements. Is there a good resource that you could point me towards? While hiring a professional would of course be the ideal solution, it may not be in the budget. What does that typically cost for a studio of this size by the way? I do have a strong desire to learn about studio design and feel confident that with some careful research and planning, and some tips from those more experienced than I, that I could come up with something that will suit my needs and be leaps and bounds better than what I currently have for a studio. My goal is not to build something that would compete with an Ocean Way. I'm simply looking for something comfortable and useful. Steve--You raise some excellent issues, some of which I've thought about myself. I find it's always easier to throw darts at something, regardless of how good or bad it is. :wink: I do agree there is some dead space wasted with the hallway and soundlock. And it is a little bit of a maze to get from control room to live room. I've been in some professional studios where I had to go through three doors to get from CR to live room, though. Do you have any specific suggestions how to rearrange things? Sight lines don't seem terrible to me. There is a line of sight between CR and the large iso (for occasional vocal overdubs), and then between the CR and the live room (basic tracking). The way I usually set up musicians is to have them all play in the same room (the live room). So they would have excellent line of sight with each other that way. I don't usually use iso rooms to place people, only equipment like guitar amps. In my current studio I don't have any line of sight to my tracking rooms from my control room. So even a modest amount would be an improvement for me. Also in my current situation, anyone that has to use the restroom needs to go from live room to CR, open a door, pull up a large roll-up door, then walk around the side of the building, and go through two doors to find the bathroom. Chances of there being toilet paper is 50/50. :mrgreen: I'm really looking for specific suggestions how to work the layout in a way that improves upon some of these design deficiencies. The toilet location is a major thorn, isn't it... thanks all, Brad

listen - you're talking about a commercial venture here - something open to the public - and please don't misunderstand me - I am not trying to be a PITA. HC accessibility was a quick issue I noticed....... but as a commercial facility things run much deeper - for example you don't say whether the building is sprinkled or not (thus I am assuming it is not - so that creates life safety issues with things like dead end corridors, having to pass from room to room before finally reaching a means of egress corridor - emergency lighting and fire alarm systems, a whole slew of things that are a hornets nest you probably don't want to open. If your looking for reading material to educate yourself so you can design, you could begin with the following: (The California building codes) http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/ca/ ... 999999.htm be forewarned - this is not an easy read - even huge architectural firms pay code experts to interpret these codes - cali is a difficult code to follow - nothing is in one place - so you jump from section to section - might be easier to just buy all the codes rather than try to weed your way through it on line...... OK - you need the: Building Code, Existing Building Code, Fire Code, Energy Code, Administrative Code and the Referenced Standards Code.......... and all you need to do is ferret out the sections specific to your Use Group and then follow all of the directions....... just like baking a cake...... believe me this is not as simple as you may think - if it was I would just tell you to read "A"...... Cost is dependent on a lot of things....... and not usually the sort of thing I discuss online..... Rod

Hi Rod, I'll write a more thorough reply a little later. Is it safe to assume that rules are different if this is just a personal use space? thanks, Brad p.s. Got your book in the mail today! Looks packed with great info.

Brad McGowan wrote:

Hi Rod, I'll write a more thorough reply a little later. Is it safe to assume that rules are different if this is just a personal use space?

Brad, a commercial venture is always different than a private home studio, for example there are no requirements for handicapped accessibility in a private home studio - because it is not a business venture with public access. I would be very surprised if any Building Official (or Fire Marshall) would accept the view of a private studio inside of a commercial building as anything other than a commercial business use. However - even if they did - once it is constructed inside of a commercial facility - if the building requires fire protection (like sprinkler systems and fire alarms) you would still be required to provide those even though the use was private - the same with emergency lighting - exit signs, fire extinguishers, etc. This because the requirements for the building don't change. It is a commercial building regardless of the use. It certainly could not be classified as a residential use...... However - you would probably be hard pressed to convince anyone that this was a private use studio - not to mention that (if you could) it would be identified as such on your certificate of occupancy - which would make it difficult for you in obtaining commercial insurance to protect your assets - the insurance company would probably be scratching their head trying to figure out why you needed a commercial policy for something that was not open to the public...... Never mind the fact that if a client got hurt (in a fall for example) that their attorney would probably have a field day with the fact that you were not permitted for commercial use - and for the same reason your insurance company would probably void the policy - effectively leaving you on your own to deal with the costs involved.........

Got your book in the mail today! Looks packed with great info.

I hope it helps, Rod

not sure if this is a dead thread or not... :)