Construction started, at a standstill with doubts!

:? Well, I'll shamelessly say that I'm confused. I'm at a standstill with my studio construction and won't go any further until I've cleared up my doubts. I hope to learn from your experience! I'm building in a rented commercial space (with permission to make the changes, of course). I've signed a 5-year lease but that will likely turn into 10 years, so I need the construction to be as good as my budget allows (max $8,000, not including hvac). There are virtually no neighbors which is rare for downtown Montreal; there's a large parking lot on one long side of the studio with a corner being shared with a condo (that corner happens to be in the live room), my living space shares the wall of the other long side, and more parking spots on the short sides. No one above, nothing below. So there's no worries regarding connected neighbors, but I still want to dampen my noise, keep out city sounds and make sure the room's acoustics are good. There are 4 load-bearing 8" beams running along the length of the room, about 15' apart from each other. I designed the room with my control room window(s) split in 2 on either side of one of the middle beams, but I'm not sure if that is a good idea. The length of the entire room is about 45' and the width is about 22', with 10.5' ceilings.. The sketchup pics are rough, I'm afraid, but to scale. There is supposed to be another beam in the middle of the larger room (the live room). The sketchup pic with the wood coloring is a design using a storage closet adjacent to the entrance air-lock. I've also posted a few real pics, the shot with the windows being the control room area. So far, I've laid out the vapor barrier on the concrete floor, and I went ahead with the sub-floor construction of the area I've set out for the live room. I spaced the 2x4 sleepers every 16", filled the spaces with roxul mineral wool, and put 5/8" OSB (particle board) on top of it all. So far I haven't done anything on top of the concrete in the control room area. A professional acoustician and studio designer online said to me that building that subfloor on the concrete was a huge mistake, that it will resonate and sound bad... that I should have left it concrete or put laminate on concrete for better results.... wouldn't that defeat the purpose of a vapor barrier? Isn't concrete too reflective? I know that my control room is too square, so I'm working on a new design that will replicate the proper rooms I've seen on this site. How do the tracking room angles look in general? I clearly haven't done enough research, but I'm taking this break to scan these forums and hopefully avoid a few mistakes. Thanks in advance for any guidance you can offer! Sincerely, Simon

I am afraid I have to agree with what you have already heard - the potential is there for a problem with resonance - and you really did nothing to improve your isolation - so it was not money well spent...... A concrete slab has roughly the same reflective qualities as a hardwood floor - so left alone (as we did with Dark PIne Studios in North Carolina) would be perfectly fine...... A lot of studios these days are using etched and colored concrete as their floor finish....... If I were you I would carefully take up the floor - you can always use the sheathing material for your wall assemblies......... Rod

Thanks Rod... I actually just bought your book and found a section that I wish I had read earlier... haste makes waste, as they say. :cen: If I tear up everything and go for the concrete floors, my main concern is that the floors will not be treated by a vapor barrier, and they'll be freezing in our -30C winters. I wish I lived in a milder and dryer climate so that I could opt for that choice without having to pour new concrete with a vapor barrier under it... I feel like wasting more money is the only option for me... another layer of particle board on top of the last, to reduce potential resonance. Does this make sense to you? Would rubber pucks have been useful in the floor structure, even if no one is below me? I've managed to be like one of those stories you mention in your book!!

SeratoneStudio wrote:

Thanks Rod... I actually just bought your book and found a section that I wish I had read earlier... haste makes waste, as they say. :cen: If I tear up everything and go for the concrete floors, my main concern is that the floors will not be treated by a vapor barrier, and they'll be freezing in our -30C winters. I wish I lived in a milder and dryer climate so that I could opt for that choice without having to pour new concrete with a vapor barrier under it... I feel like wasting more money is the only option for me... another layer of particle board on top of the last, to reduce potential resonance. Does this make sense to you? Would rubber pucks have been useful in the floor structure, even if no one is below me? I've managed to be like one of those stories you mention in your book!!

Seratone, Rubber pucks would not have helped - in fact they might well have made things worse....... What I would recommend (if you want comfort) would be to remove the deck - build your rooms - and then - inside the rooms - lay down 2" of 703 - ad a double layer of plywood over the top of that - use staggered joints - and screw it all together...... with a solid layer of 703 to sit on (rockwool will do as well if it's cheaper for you - again in the 3psf range) the plywood will be damped - and unable to resonate....... I have used this method successfully - Rod

Hi Rod, I've been away from the forum for a few days, but all this brainstorming has lead me to take your advice (and the advice of others) - I'll be tearing up the wood deck I built. With that said, I was planning on having my control room and tracking room on the same concrete floor, with obsessively sealed wall/floor angles - but your last post suggests that I lay down plywood over 703. I'm reading your book now but can't find a detailed description of what you just mentioned. What does the plywood get drilled into - the concrete through the batts? I thought concrete (painted and sealed) was a great option for my actual floor... maybe that'll only be for my CR, and I'll do this treatment you mentioned in my LR, afterall I have to cover up all those tapcon holes I made somehow. Please let me know if I understood you properly, I don't think I can mentally handle another big *%!#-up.... :oops: Simon

I see... that suggestion for plywood over 703 was for comfort,meaning getting off the cold concrete. I'll save on my budget and leave the concrete floor in the 2 rooms - my main concern is sound flanking through the concrete - does this happen? Simon the Newbian