Rec booth, control room & seating in a small room? Possible?

Hi, (I edited the subject line because it didn't quite sound like a question) I've got so many questions, but have found most of my answers through the 'search' function. Only thing I can't find at this point, I'm asking now. (It's my first post here, so hope I don't get hammered for breaking the rules... :wink: I'm reading them again as I write this) And I'll thank you now for taking the time to look at this, I realize it's a lot to ask. My Goal: What I have right now is a one-room project studio that I've been using for personal voice-over work. I want to take this to the next level by being a small voice over studio. (there's a good market for this here in Taiwan) The Problem: At the moment I'm in the planning stages of converting this room into a working studio. Yes, I said ROOM. Unfortunately I only have one room to work with, and no possibility of expansion at this point. And even worse, the room is small. (pic & dimensions below) Room Dimensions L(10 feet 8 inch) x W(11 feet 10 inch) x H(9feet 3 inch) My Requirements: - A recording booth/room that can comfortably fit 2 people; and possibly 3 people at a tight squeeze. (although 3rd person is optional). And of course must have enough space for all necessary equipment within the booth/room (mics, place to put scripts,etc..) - Enough space for a modest sized mixing desk and small rackspace within the room. - Space left over for 1 or 2 clients to sit. Yes, I know....that's A LOT to try and fit into a room of this size. But I know I can make it work. Additional Info: - My house is a townhouse (rowhouse) - West wall is shared (no one on the other side. It's a corner lot) - House is made entirely of concrete and rebar (and despite what many say, concrete is NOT as dense as you think; at least not in Taiwan. I can hear neighbors scooting chairs, arguments, TV's, and especially dense objects dropped [like marbles, coins etc.] quite clearly at times) - Location of studio is on the top floor (4th floor) (neighbor hardly uses their 4th floor) - Room has 4 sliding glass doors on the North side, leading to a large balcony - It gets REALLY hot in summer and is super humid - West wall has a false wall for soundproof. Works well. I don't know how much of that is necessary, but thought it wouldn't hurt to have. My Question: 1. Right now I'm mainly trying to figure out where to place the vocal booth/room. Where do you suggest? My guess is that it MUST be on the South wall to the right of the main entrance door. 2. I've read that creating a 'box' of a recording room isn't the best option. Should I angle the walls? So that no two walls are facing each other? Is that possible in my case? 3. Where should the 'control room' be located? (basically everything outside of the recording room is the control room....but where would you put the mixing desk based on your placement of the vocal booth/room?) 4. What space would be left over for the clients to sit? Questions #1 and #2 are my main focus at this point. I think the rest will just kind of fall in place. I think that's about everything. Thank you again for any advice you can offer. There's really not too much in terms of 'professional knowledge' in this area where I live. So everything for me is trial and error or asking good folks such as yourself for help. Thank you, Glenn

Well...nearly 2 months and no reply. I'm an optimist, so I'm hoping this one just slipped through the cracks. I don't think I did anything wrong in the post. Anyhow....maybe people don't like Taiwan.. :wink: To continue with this, I had a designer over and they essentially left the placement up to me. In the end I decided to put the recording room on the West wall. The idea would be to open the room door and you'd be facing the door to the recording room. To your right would be a door leading to the control room. I chose this way cuz I thought it would make the room as close to A-symmetry as it possibly could. Although at that size it probably wouldn't matter. 1. Comments on the chosen placement? It's still isn't built yet. I'm sourcing some of the materials from the US, as it should be cheaper than buying here, even with shipping. 2. My next quest is figuring out who to properly ventilate and cool the recording room. So far I'm thinking to just purchase the ventilation system from vocalbooth.com or one of the other vocal booth makers. And then buying a double mini-split AC unit. One will cool the control room while the other is jerry-rigged in some fashion to push cold air into the intake of ventilation system. I think it might work, although may not look super pretty. 3. After that I've gotta consider treating the room. The designers wouldn't touch this point. They claim it's the engineer's prerogative. My guess...they just don't really know. But I suppose I'm happy to do it myself. I can't seem to find a solid source on what exactly to use to make it extremely dead-sounding, but effectively treat the low-end. I'm really worried about having a 'bass-boom-box' of a recording room. All sources I've searched out have widely different methods; have several suggestions, but no follow-up on the end result; or say what DOESN'T work. I'm utterly confused on this point. Any sources you can point out? Ok everyone, thanks for reading this and hope to get your input. Maybe this time around I'll get lucky.

Anyhow....maybe people don't like Taiwan..

Naah, actually I think it's just the style of your shoes.... :) Seriously, sometimes posts do fall trough the cracks, so to speak, and not get noticed. Other times the regular posters here are really busy doing other stuff, and nobody is around. So If you get no replies after a few days, then just "bump" your thread with a gentle reminder, so it gets noticed again.

And even worse, the room is small. L(10 feet 8 inch) x W(11 feet 10 inch) x H(9feet 3 inch)

Small, yes, but still usable. If that's what you have, then it is what you have! But I don't think you have space for both a control room AND a vocal booth. I'd just leave it as one room. With those dimensions, the ratio actually isn't too bad. It's fairly close to Sepmeyer's second best ratio, and there aren't any major red flags for big modal issues, except of course the usual caveats for small rooms.

House is made entirely of concrete and rebar (and despite what many say, concrete is NOT as dense as you think; at least not in Taiwan. I can hear neighbors scooting chairs, arguments, TV's, and especially dense objects dropped [like marbles, coins etc.] quite clearly at times)

OK, so isolation is an issue. It sounds like some of that is impact noise, and some is probably due to poor sealing / flanking issues. But your best bet is MSM construction, room-in-a-room walls and ceiling. Your on the fourth floor, too! Ouch...

I've read that creating a 'box' of a recording room isn't the best option. Should I angle the walls? So that no two walls are facing each other? Is that possible in my case?

Depends what you mean by "box". For your control room, a box actually isn't bad, as long as it has a good ratio and is well treated. You can splay the front walls if you want, for two reasons: RFZ and soffits. But you don't want to splay all your walls at random angles in a control room! Symmetry is critical in a control room, for good stereo imaging. Your room must be symmetrical.

3. Where should the 'control room' be located? (basically everything outside of the recording room is the control room....but where would you put the mixing desk

Once gain, I don't see enough room in there for two rooms. It is small already, and you haven't even built your inner leaf, nor your treatment! One room is all you have space for. And your options on layout are really limited: The only workable layout that I see is to have the front of the room facing the wall that says "protruding wall", and the rear at the "false wall". I'd start from that perspective, and see what you can fit in in terms of your MSM walls, soffits, mix position, etc. Do a rough layout in SletchUp, post it here, and folks will reply with suggestions on how to improve it.

2. My next quest is figuring out who to properly ventilate and cool the recording room.

Yup. HVAC is a huge part of the design, especially for somewhere like Taiwan, which you said is both hot and humid. Your room will basically be an extremely thick airtight blanket, and you'll need to move, cool and dehumidify a lot of air if you want three people plus equipment in there... This is NOT something you can do "jerry-rigged in some fashion to push cold air into the intake of ventilation system". Nope. You MUST design it properly, or hire an HVAC contractor to do it for you. "I think it might work," is not the kind of phrase you want to hear for the design of a recording studio.

3. After that I've gotta consider treating the room. The designers wouldn't touch this point. They claim it's the engineer's prerogative. My guess...they just don't really know.

Oops! Looks like you need to switch designers!

I can't seem to find a solid source on what exactly to use to make it extremely dead-sounding,

Bad idea! A dead sounding room is terrible. You do NOT want "lifeless". You want controlled neutrality. You want the room to sound as natural, open and uncolored as possible, but certainly not "dead".

All sources I've searched out have widely different methods;

Then it' looks like you've been searching in the wrong places! I'd really, really suggest that you buy two books, and spend plenty of time reading them over a few times each, studying them carefully so you can get a handle on this while acoustics thing. The first is "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest. It is the "Bible" of acoustics, and teaches you all of the basics, plus way more. The second book is commonly referred to as "Rod's book" here: "Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros", by Rod Gervais. It tells you how to design and build your room, taking into account pretty much everything. There is a great section on HVAC that you absolutely must read.

I'm utterly confused on this point. Any sources you can point out?

I was "utterly confused" about the whole thing too, until I read those two books then started studying this forum. Between those three sources you will find absolutely everything you need to know, and way, way more too. This forum is, without doubt, the best place on the entire internet for CORRECT information on how to build a studio successfully. Sure, there are lots of other places all over the internet that CLAIM to tell you how to do it, but most of them are useless, and the posters plainly don't have a clue: they just repeat the same old myths and legends that have zero basis in science or reality, and which should have been taken outside and shot, years ago! In contrast, on this forum you will find links to research papers, equations, serious discussions, tips, hints and suggestion by experienced studio designers and acousticians, and a bunch of people who have already or currently are in the process of building successful studios (I fall into that category), based on solid scientific principles and the vast experience of people who actually do know what they are doing, and make their living doing it. Look elsewhere on the Net, and you'll here about egg-crates and carpets on the walls, or numerous other kinds of voodoo that is absolute junk. Or stick around here, read the threads, read the books, get familiar with the underlying principles of acoustics, design your room, post your basic designs here for others to look at and help improve, and you'll get the best possible room that you can have in that space.

Maybe this time around I'll get lucky.

:) - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

[This forum is, without doubt, the best place on the entire internet for CORRECT information on how to build a studio successfully.

+1 No words, Andre