CR in long+narrow apt bldg (built 1685), neighbours up+down.

EDIT: OK, so I am making this more concise, to see if that might help with getting some replies, I hope it's not seen as presumptuous, I am truly grateful for the amount of knowledge I've already gleaned from this board, but I do need more help. For now, I just want to do a control room in my long (6m) and narrow (2.3m) room, with a reasonable ceiling (3m). The room is the 2nd floor of a 300 year old monumentaal/listed-building in the centre of Amsterdam overlooking a quiet canal. Neighbours above and below. Side to side - I am not worried about. In order of priority the problems to solve are: 1. Sound leakage to upstairs neighbour. 2. Sound leakage to downstairs neighbour. 3. Acoustics. 4. Sound leakage from outside to inside (via the window). 5. Sound leakage to my living room. 6. Sound leakage from inside to outside (via the window). The room is built from solid brick, but there is a boarded-up old doorway (boarded with wood) in one wall, and a 30cm*60cm hole in another (for home-cinema projector). The floor is 5cm hardwood parquet, sitting on top of 5cm light-concrete. I *think* that then sits on wooden joists. The ceiling is a bit of an unknown, I can see the plaster-board, so presumably it's joists and then neigbours floor (also 5cm concrete), but I cannot be sure. I cannot touch the window (listed-building). As room is so narrow I am thinking inside-out walls and inside-out ceiling. I already have 24 bass-traps (monsters, tri-traps/superchunks and 244 panels from GiK) which would be good to re-use. Although it's mainly a CR/mix-room I would like to record vocals and acoustic guitar in the room also. 1. What do I do with the floor? Should I consider floating if engineer says it can take the necessary mass? How do I calculate the mass required? 2. Does inside-out wall construction make sense for me? Can I use my existing bass-traps on the room-side in the gaps between the frames? 3. Should I slant the ceiling? Or just hang my panels at a slant as the cloud? 4. Must I brick in the home theatre hole? Or could I make it glass? If so, that would mean the projector then firing through two layers of glass (one in the stud-wall, one in the brick-wall. I *could* move the projector back into the living room, but it would ruin the look of the room =(((( BUDGET: preferably 2500 euros, but can rise to 5000 as required.

I could try something like this (the sketch up is not spot on - I'm still learning how to use it - but it gives an idea) but that leaves me with a TINY control room. I'd be lucky to fit myself in there, let alone another person.

because your room is so narrow you really can't splay your side walls. I'd try something like this using inside/out modules for walls and ceiling.

You know ... in the actual room (as opposed to the sketchup) there's this awkward window-box/radiator-box construction and as a result it never occurred to me to put the mixing desk at the window-end of the room. But, if you do, as you have, then the space you are losing at that end of the room on account of the 38% rule, is actually not lost at all because it's space you are using as the doorway. Whereas my old way I was losing doorway space and behind-the-desk space. So yeh, perhaps withoutfully realising it, you've really come up with the goods on this one. :) This design looks great to me. A few further questions if I may: 1. Do you think I will need to do anything with the floor? Should I bother investigating a floating floor? Or do you think the general treatment to the walls and ceiling and proper acoustic-caulking of the joints/cracks/etc should solve the main sound-transmission problem to downstairs neighbours? 2. I see the air-gap in your design is only 25mm, is this for space-reasons (coz the room is so narrow) or acoustic reasons? I thought the normal recommended minumum gap between leaves was 10cm, right? 3. Should I try slanting the ceiling at all? 4. Can I use my existing GiK traps as the filling for my inside-out walls/ceilings? Attached some pics of how I would lay it out (the rack stuff is just representative).

*bumpity-bump* Anyone got any thoughts on my remaining questions at all? I'm not in a rush as such, but the more I know now, the better it helps me plan finances etc. Plus, if I am attempt floating the floor I need to know that before I get the structural engineer around. Thanks in advance.

albyrne5 wrote:

1. Do you think I will need to do anything with the floor? Should I bother investigating a floating floor? Or do you think the general treatment to the walls and ceiling and proper acoustic-caulking of the joints/cracks/etc should solve the main sound-transmission problem to downstairs neighbours?

I would suggest you float the whole structure on a floating floor if you want play drums.

2. I see the air-gap in your design is only 25mm, is this for space-reasons (coz the room is so narrow) or acoustic reasons? I thought the normal recommended minumum gap between leaves was 10cm, right?

yes - you are very space limited. If you angled the ceiling from low in the front up to the middle then angle back down at the rear you will increase the total air cavity.

3. Should I try slanting the ceiling at all?

see above

4. Can I use my existing GiK traps as the filling for my inside-out walls/ceilings?

yes.

I would suggest you float the whole structure on a floating floor if you want play drums.

Just to clarify, John - I am only planning to play electric drums, so perhaps a floating drum platform would be enough? I.E. To limit foot-thumping. But I won't be making MASSIVE amounts of noise in this room (i.e. not a full on live drum kit, and no guitar amps either).

Then build a drum riser at the back

John Sayers wrote:

Then build a drum riser at the back

Yup, sounds good. Just to be absolutely clear though - will the plan (inside out walls and ceilings) with no changes to the floor at all (apart from acoustic caulking at joints to existing walls) give a reduction in sound transmission to the neighbours directly below? Or would I need a floating floor to achieve that? Or did you only suggest a floating floor to achieve EXTRA noise reduction (which would be necessary if I was playing live drums, say). Sorry to be so nit-picky, but I just want to make sure I 100% understand your recommendations before procedding with a plan.

well - if you want to reduce the transmission to downstairs you'll have to float the floor. If you only require it to stay the same but want to reduce kick drum pounding the build a riser.