Ian New Studio in narrow room. Single storey with flat roof

Maybe you are thinking of bass traps, rather than wall insulation? For bass traps, lower density is probably better, but for wall insulation most of the research I've seen points to 48 kg/m3 as being optimal. - Stuart -

I thought it was the other way round. Anyways thank you for clarifying me :)

Ian- Fill the cavity you have. don't alter the walls now, as you don't have enough space to worry about the "recommended" cavity. Drum rooms need volume. Lil

Ok thanks Lil, I'll stick with the 5cm gap then. This was the plan due to the dimensions of the room. 10 cm would be nice but would make the room really small. I'm hoping that losing that 5cm will mean a minimal loss in isolation to the outside.

Still working on the live room but I'm at the point where I am about to order the sliders (4 sets - one for each end wall of the live room and one for each end wall of the control room) I've been advised by the glazing company that argon filled, laminated double glazed units are the best to go with (4.5 or 6mm glass I think - I'll check tomorrow and update this post) - They say they've had great results with them but they are not experts in studio design! I'm looking to find out your thoughts on what glass I should go for here. Due to limited space, the only option is sliders really and I dont know any good joiners who would be able to build me the doors I've seen designs for on the site so these would be good quality uPVC units. I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing before ordering as they are not cheap and I dont want to make any mistakes that will compromise the 100% isolation I'm hoping (and praying!) to achieve in this live room. Any thoughts? Cheers Ian

obviously using double glazed units would make for a 3 leaf system in theory but you may still think they are the right way to go....??

I seem to remember a thread a while back, where someone used double-glazing in sliding doors, and ended up with a resonance problem, where the glass was "ringing" at certain frequencies. Not sure, but I think that's what it was. I'm not sure if it is a good idea to use that kind of glass: it seems rather thin, and the air gap is very small. It might work fine for normal houses, but I don't think it would be great for a studio, where the sound levels are so much higher, and you need excellent isolation in the low end. Thick laminate glass seems to be the best. - Stuart -

Thanks Stuart. Just to confirm, the glass they've recommended is 6.4mm laminated with 18mm gap filled with argos gas then 4mm laminated to make up the units. The different thicknesses of glass in each of the units apparantly gets rid of any resonance problems within the units. The girl from the upvc company is really helpful and is contacting their glass suppliers today to ask them if they've ever done a project like this before to see if they got any advice. She says the frames are hermetically sealed which is good...

The glass company have been back in touch and said they can go up to 10mm toughened on 6.4mm laminated k glass with a 12mm argos gap. They are saying that this gives a rating of RW(db) 40. Any thoughts on this rating?

Also, I've contacted Pilkingtons and they've said they've got a product called Ortophon which is the best glass for soundproofing. They've given me some figures for both single glazing and double glazing. I've posted this below as a screen shot. It'll be a good debate on the forum I think to look at these figures and decide whether this glass (it wont be cheap), will give significant benefits over the double glazed units I mentioned above, and single glazed thick glass. You guys are clued up on the figures and benefits so it should be an interesting topic....

This is the pdf with the data. Optiphon brochure. In short form, the higher the isolation, the better. Limitation is money. Andre

Yeah, I'm wondering if anyone can offer any advice as to whether its worth spending the extra on the ortophon or 10mm on 6.4 lami units compared to one thick piece of laminated, toughened glass!! For example, if I just use single glazed here, it could be a 28mm laminated toughened sheet, (as this is the maximum the frames will take). Does anyone have Rw figures for the different thicknesses of standard glass? Cheers

ian.lb wrote:

Yeah, I'm wondering if anyone can offer any advice as to whether its worth spending the extra on the ortophon or 10mm on 6.4 lami units compared to one thick piece of laminated, toughened glass!! For example, if I just use single glazed here, it could be a 28mm laminated toughened sheet, (as this is the maximum the frames will take). Does anyone have Rw figures for the different thicknesses of standard glass?

Only you can make that decision regarding money. The general rule of thumb is to have the same mass in the windows as in the walls it is mounted in, going one size larger. Windows do not have insulation in them to dampen sounds within. That is why going denser. Andre

When ever I hear double glazed I get alarm bells! if you add another door in the future you'll have a 4 leaf system. If the company can do 28mm glass, wouldn't that be suitable on it's own? You may find that it is over kill! The problem with there rating system is that there not measuring low musical frequency.

AVare wrote:

The general rule of thumb is to have the same mass in the windows as in the walls it is mounted in, going one size larger. Windows do not have insulation in them to dampen sounds within. That is why going denser.

I cant really go one size larger because my walls are 30mm thick so even with the 28mm it will not be as much mass as is in the walls. I think you're right Lilith, I should just go with the 28mm single glazed laminated and stop worrying so much!! It's my first build so I aint got a bench mark which is why I been struggling to decide!!

I cant really go one size larger because my walls are 30mm thick so even with the 28mm it will not be as much mass as is in the walls

That would only be true if you made your walls out of glass, or your windows out of drywall! I think you might be confusing mass and density. Glass is much more dense than drywall, so thinner glass is the same mass as thicker drywall. The exact relationship depends on the type of drywall and the type of glass, but it might be something like the glass being twice as dense as the drywall, in which case 15mm glass would have the same density as 30mm drywall. However, you'll have to check with the manufacturer of the drywall, and the manufacturer of the glass, to find out what the density of their products actually is. - Stuart -

Ah, right, thanks Stuart I understand what u mean. I'll try to find out the densities as a matter of interest. Cheers Ian