SIMO Studio Design

John (and everyone else), I made the change that you said on the right side wall of the control room. I was just wondering if I "need" to have insulation on the newly added stud wall (the one closest to the outer wall) or not (as there is already insulation behind the Slot Resonator)? ... and the new stud wall just need a plasterboard panel to act as the "back" of the Resonator (to be sealed) ? same doubt apply for the stud walls behind the Slot Resonator in the Live room ? (see Pic.1 attached) I've also got a quick question about the wall between CR and LR (if you don't mind): I attached 2 versions: 1) with Sliding Doors (see Pic. 2 attached) 2) with door + window (see Pic. 3 attached) Is there any (acoustical) advantage / disadvantage in any one of the two options ? I think I prefer the Sliding Doors version... I'm just a bit worried that the gap between them will "resonate", or that I won't match their mass with the rest of that wall mass (and last but not least that they will be more expensive than option 2) ?? Anyway, in the eventuality that you would suggest the Sliding Doors as a better option, could I move them a bit forward along that wall (towards the front of the CR) in order to have a better view of the Live Room without getting into other problems? I'm confused: ... I thought that the walls both sides of the mix position should not be reflective (glass), but I've seen in several of your designs that it is NOT uncommon at all, which makes me think that it's probably not a problem. Would you confirm that? Lastly (sorry), if the answer of the above questions is both "yes" (i.e. Yes = Sliding Doors / Yes = Sliding doors moved forward), would it be beneficial at all having another window at the opposite "first-reflection point" on the Right wall of the CR as well - as I am still in time to add that to the outer walls? (see Pic. 4 attached) I have tried to make the questions so that they could be answered with a YES or NO (or at least with a short answer) as I know time is precious ! Thanks again ! Simo

Simone - yes - you need the insulation on the rear of the slot resonator - you also must seal it so the only air access is via the gap between the slats. The window/door is an option, I must add that the position of the window is better placed than the sliding doors which are too far back IMO. - You don't need a window on the opposing side - the glass is reflective as are the slats.

A pair of sliding glass doors that big, with the right kind of glass, will not be cheap. Not sure where you live, but when I priced that kind of thing here where I live (Chile), I was quoted prices upwards of US$ 1,000, each door! I needed six of them in my original plan. Not sure if you are prepared to pay that much, but I'm not! It would be great to have the nice open feeling and clear sight lines of the double glass doors, but the cost just eats too large a hole in my budget. Personally, I'd go with the "door and window" plan. - Stuart -

Great studio design and sketchup skills. well done

Thanks a lot for your quick response - very much appreciated !! I'll update the design straight away. Ciao and have a good day Simo

Hi there, OK - here is attached the sketch up file of the updated version of my Studio design (the construction steps are shown in the scenes at the top of the page)... for the moment I'm gonna stick with the sliding doors version, while waiting for some more quotes from suppliers re: costs. 1) In my design "for some strange reason" :-) I'm using the 98x50 cm studs (maybe because I was initially following John's "Small Studio" design). Would it make much difference if I'd use the 75x45 cm studs instead? 2) At the moment my walls construction is as follows: - brick wall - air gap (10 cm) - stud frame filled with insulation in the cavity - 16mm plasterboard (with possibly another MDF layer of 12mm glued to it) Shall I build with a inside/out structure instead (basically the other way around)? : - brick wall - air gap (10 cm) - 16mm plasterboard (with possibly another MDF layer of 12mm glued to it) - stud frame with insulation in the cavity - cloth stretched on top to cover insulation Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Is there any advantage of one of the two compared to the other? 3) Is the Rear-Top Bass trap ok (the one at the top and between the two angled walls)? feasible? would that along with the angled bass trap walls give too much Low Frequency absorption (even though I think that in such a small room it shouldn't be the case, right?) Also, on the angled bass trap walls: should the inner face (the one facing the inside of the CR - to be clear) be a cloth stretched over the studs? 4) I'm really not sure about the ceiling construction! Is that ok? Any suggestions ? 5) I think that (after various research and comparison between different designs) the speaker soffit should be ok. Can you see anything that's not right in it ? (the pics attached below show the steps to build it) 6) The acoustic hangers below the speaker soffit are placed in two different ways on the Left and Right sides (you'll see them by show/hiding the relevant layers on the sketch up file ): Is there any benefit from any of these two configurations? (I think that as they are there to absorb Low frequencies - which are not directional by nature - it shouldn't make any difference in theory... ?!). ..or, shall I just simply use the configuration that will allow me to fit more of them? :-) Many thanks again in anticipation! Ciao Simo

Shall I build with a inside/out structure instead (basically the other way around)? : - brick wall - air gap (10 cm) - 16mm plasterboard (with possibly another MDF layer of 12mm glued to it) - stud frame with insulation in the cavity - cloth stretched on top to cover insulation

Well, that sounds like you are forgetting to put insulation in the air gap, between the two leaves. that would cost you several dB of isolation. And you may or may not need the insulation between the studs, which would be exposed to the room, depending on what kind of treatment your room is going to need. Perhaps you are confusing the use of insulation as a damper in the MSM system, and insulation as acoustic treatment inside the room?

Is there any advantage of one of the two compared to the other?

If done properly, inside-out construction buys you a couple of inches of extra space inside your room, which is very useful for small rooms. Every inch counts. - Stuart -

Hi Stuart, YES, I think that IS the problem too ! :-) I'll try to read - more - and see if it clears my mind. Any idea about the other Q's ? Thanks! Simo

Hi there, I'm updating my design as the outer building where my studio will be is finished (as soon as I start to build the internal structure I will post a "construction phase" on the appropriate part of the Forum with all the pics so far). I have to update the project as the building measurements are slightly different from the original design. The questions now are: 1) Can I use resilient bars in a inside-out wall ? My concern is that after building the wall panels on the floor (with 100x50mm studwork), attaching the resilient bars to it, and then screwing the 15mm plasterboard panels (with the 50mm insulation glued to its rear), will I be able to stand the wall up into place without breaking the whole construction? 2) Also, which construction type would you recommend: A, B or C (.zip attached below)? Many Thanks again! Ciao Simo

1) Can I use resilient bars in a inside-out wall ?

Why would you want to do that? If you are building an inside-out wall, then by definition it is going to be decoupled. so why do you want to use RC as well, since the real purpose of RC is to decouple? Decoupling twice won't gain you anything: it will just waste time and money. Unless you have a really good reason for doing that, I'd just attache the drywall direct to the stud frame, on the floor, then lift the wall into position. I tried to look at your "three options", but I have no idea what format those files are in, since they have no extensions. I'd suggest that you rename them correctly, and re-post them. - Stuart -

Hi Stuart, Thanks for taking the time to reply. As you can probably gather I'm "learning" - slowly :-) I get your point. And if I can avoid anything that could save expense and time, all the better. Here is the file again WITH the .pdf extension. So, ignore option "B" and I guess it's now down to option "A" (NOT inside-out) and "C" (inside-out) on which one would give me the best performance-to-cost ratio? Ciao Simo

I'd go with "Option C", for sure. But there are two problems on your diagram: 1) The drywall ("plasterboard") should not stop where the frame starts! It should go down all the way to the floor. So should the mineral wool. 2) If you can afford it, filling the entire 100mm "gap" with mineral wool will help your isolation a bit. Your diagram shows only 50mm in there, but 100mm would be better, if your budget will allow it. Just make sure that you don't stuff it in tightly! It should be just enough to fill the gap, but not compressed at all. Also, your diagram says "acoustic mineral wool". You probably don't need to buy anything special for that! Plain old ordinary mineral wool will work fine, as long as the density is somewhere around 48 kg/m3. And don't forget to seal the brick wall before you build the inner leaf! A good coat of paint should do the trick. Brick and mortar are porous, and need to be sealed. - Stuart -

Great. Thanks for the tips Stuart. Much appreciated! Just another quick confusion issue I'm afraid though: Can you tell me if I'm on the right track? - In walls where I need absorption I will fill in the cavity left empty between studs with insulation and then cover it with a stretched cloth. - In slot resonators walls I will again fill in the cavity with insulation and then cover it with a cloth and then the slots over it. - Rear bass traps will have hungers in the space between the two stud walls with insulation and cloth in the studwork facing the inside of the CR. .... basically I will have insulation between studs almost everywhere, as well as the insulation glued on the back of the plasterboard to fill in the gap with the outer brick wall. Quite a lot of insulation to get hold of ! :-( Or, is there another way to use the cavity between studs that I missing ? I AM reading a lot and making comparisons between different ways of doing things in order to find the most effective, but sometimes this makes me more confused than when I started ! Simo

simo wrote:

.... basically I will have insulation between studs almost everywhere, as well as the insulation glued on the back of the plasterboard to fill in the gap with the outer brick wall. Quite a lot of insulation to get hold of !

Yes.

Or, is there another way to use the cavity between studs that I missing ?

No. (Binary) Andre

Perfect. Thanks Andre ! Simo

Like André said. "Yup!" Absorption everywhere. It's a small room. It will need lots of treatment, particularly bass trapping. The slot walls will help to keep some liveliness in the room, as will the hard floor and the glass. To be honest, it's looking quite good so far, from my point of view! - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

To be honest, it's looking quite good so far, from my point of view!

+1 :D Andre

Dear all, I've been quite busy recently and didn't managed to post an updated version of my studio plan any sooner....but here we are!! It's not much different from the previous one in terms of layout but after the outer building has been finished a few measures have changed in such a way that it was easier for me to re-do it from scratch than re-dimension the file in several parts. I really want to get this going in the next few weeks (all going well with the design!). I have to admit that I'm (STILL) not quite sure with the Slots construction (....I've honestly done lots of research about that and tried to have a broadband resonators in my rooms, but I'm still not sure if I got it right!)....you can check them with the "Tape" tool to see the pattern. Any advice is greatly appreciated !! Please feel free to toggle between the Scenes at the top in conjunction with hiding/showing the various levels in order to see if in your opinion the construction is ok... I tried to get it as close as possible to how I will (or at least try to) build it. Hope to hear your comment(s) very soon.... Ciao Simo