New Studio plans Reserch

OK . I am located in the mountains of Wyoming. Also I will in the near future, be doing one of two options for a new personal studio. Opt.#1 is an existing building. Opt.#2 is new const. from the ground up. For now I'll focus on option #1 Overview- No neighbors for miles, so acoustic considerations are for optimum in studio sound. I am a singer/songwriter my music consists primarily of acoustic guitar and vocals w/ some midi instrumentation and possible some acoustic percussion. Option #1 on a (prospective new purchase) piece of property there is a pre existing, detached building. Its finished exterior only Construction is Concrete slab floor - Outside dimensions are 14'6" wide X 24' long. Wall height is 9'3" to start of vaulted ceiling with a ridge height of 15' bottom of beam. Interior walls are OSB ply inside 2X6 or 2X4 studs and 1/2 log siding outside . Vaulted ceiling is sheetrock with 2 skylights on North side. see attached drawing . Since I can change the the interior to some extent to achieve more desirable dimensions: Question 1. in the aprox range of say 13' wide by 23' long are these dimensions good enough ? or are there a more optimum dimensions, that are close and could be furred out to ? Q. 2 should I angle the corners off or use something like GIK Tri Traps in the corners? Q 3. The last question is in my situation is a one room solution sufficient ? Here is a photo of the studio building .

The outside diminisions do not specifically matter, what does matter might be you said it has an interior of OSB. This is fine as long as you are not considering a double leaf (two wall) assembly. If you have a Cathedral ceiling then you have horizontal framing members holding/tieing the walls together. What are the layout measurements, how many and what type of building material are these ties made from? Oh, it's a truss roof? "inside 2X6 or 2X4 studs" Figure it out, the more you guess the more we guess and the less anyone can be of any genuine service to you. Do a search for "room ratios" then get acquainted with "wall splaying" and RFZ (reflection free zone). A one room environment is used by many, I have one and so do a lot of others. Especially for a singer/songwriter using MIDI, it's the way to go. My 2 cents, Brien

Also, please read the stickies!!!!

Hey thanks for the info so far. AS for more clarification - I am a retired from 35 yrs. as a carpenter and job foreman in the high end custom home const field. So I can perform all of the labor for any construction as well as electrical wiring so my budget will be for materials only. 1. Yes I will be getting more info on the exact wall and roof const.. As I said this #1 option is only in the putting together and offer stage, for this piece of property. By no means a done deal. I have not as yet been able, to physically get inside the studio building ( realtor didn't have key ). just looked thru windows. and measured outside. 2. I, will be putting Aspen siding over the OSB as my interior siding ,1x6 T&G beveled edge. Aspen is similar to but slightly softer than knotty pine. I am( assuming ?). after reading some of the reference material that can just blind nail the Aspen directly onto the OSB and studs. 3. I did forget to mention that my budget to start will be $10k to $20k USD for interior (framing if needed) i.e. angles for corners etc., finish surfaces and additional acoustic treatments. I currently have a basement studio so my budget will be for the interior acoustics . As far as acoustic absorption I have 10 GIK -244 bass trap panels. 4. For the concrete slab floor I was planing (but open to suggestion) on doing a free standing floor i.e. placing a layer of 1/2 OSB on heavy mil visqueen ( attached along the seams of the OSB sheets, not tied into the walls) . Then doing glued and blind stapled 5/8" bamboo flooring. I have a small console desk and am considering a layout , like in the attached drawing. Questions. Would corner absorbers like the GIK Tri Traps w/ free standing Nearfields be optimal ? Or would the const. of something like a combo bass trap and flush mounted monitor speakers, better ? Thanks, Kevin

Any one know why this thread is appearing in the "View active topics" section but not in the "studio construction" section ??

If you can answer my questions, then I may be able to answer yours. This isn't construction as you have come to know it.

It would also be nice if he would READ THE STICKIES!!!!

OK there seems to some basic confusion (my part) and some misunderstanding ( in the replys) which seems to be resulting in some miscommunication. Because I am brand new at this forum, Please do Not confuse ignorance of Forum specific information and inside terminology with laziness. For example I thought I had been reasonably diligent in reading the "read this first" and bold highlighted info". So for clarification if reading the Pre Box info like this one WELCOME TO RECORDING STUDIO DESIGN It's IMPORTANT that you read this if you hope to gain any help on this site!!! Etc. IF this is what is ment by the statement read "The Stickies" ??? , Then please understand, I did do that. As well an the suggested Recording Manual by JS Also please understand that , I'm not trying to be argumentative when I point out that, by itself with no other explanation, The statement "Read the Stickies". Can actually be confusing and of little use to the uninitiated. For example: While The term "Stickie" as applied to this forum might be self evident to some, It is not to others. For myself after trying to read most of the Forum posting rules and "read this first" info, I have yet to find anything labeled "Stickie" so while it may seem obvious to some familiar with this FORUM and how the term applies to this particular FORUM. it may well not be to new comers. Or perhaps it's just my ignorance, in that I am using a Mac computer so my only experience with or knowledge of the term "Stickies" is the OSX application where there are actual notes in colors. I also found no colored notes of info on this site. Now for more clarification Yes there is certainly many things that are foreign to me in the terminology and particulars of acoustic science and engineering, I am how ever somewhat familiar with some of the basic ideas as they pertain to construction. In the construction that I have done we did several rather high end Home theater rooms i.e. floating the floors on 2x4's with heavy rubber U pads, as well as what was termed "Decoupling" the walls and ceilings. So yes its going to be a long learning curve for me.

xSpace wrote:

The outside diminisions do not specifically matter, what does matter might be you said it has an interior of OSB. This is fine as long as you are not considering a double leaf (two wall) assembly.

I am planning on blind nailing 1X6 aspen siding directly onto the OSB at the stud layout.

If you have a Cathedral ceiling then you have horizontal framing members holding/tieing the walls together What are the layout measurements, how many and what type of building material are these ties made from? Oh, it's a truss roof?

OK lets see First ,No it is not trusses and if I understand your question correctly " horizontal members" as in bottom cords on trusses or horizontal cross ties like beams etc., then no , no horizontal members running wall to wall. The ceiling is what we call vaulted- upside V shape the common roof and ceiling framing members are rafters, which run on a "Rake" - diagonally up from the top of wall to a ridge beam with no bottom (tie) cord. The Raked framing members tie into the walls, the pressure blocking and the ridge beam, this and the diaphragm, created by the exterior wall and roof sheeting are what tie the walls. And last there is sheet rock applied directly to the bottom of the rafters . I hope I have been clear ?

"inside 2X6 or 2X4 studs" Figure it out, the more you guess the more we guess and the less anyone can be of any genuine service to you.

I Haven't been able to get on the inside to do exact measurements as compared to outside measurements (which will tell me as to weather the wall framing is 2X4 or 2X6) But I believe as you said , the outside dimensions and the framing for that matter really doesn't matter as to the questions I am asking does it?

Do a search for "room ratios" then get acquainted with "wall splaying" and RFZ (reflection free zone).

thank you I will do that.

A one room environment is used by many, I have one and so do a lot of others. Especially for a singer/songwriter using MIDI, it's the way to go.

thats what I suspected again thank you

xSpace wrote:

If you can answer my questions, then I may be able to answer yours. This isn't construction as you have come to know it.

Are there any questions I have not yet answered ?

KevWind wrote:

OK there seems to some basic confusion (my part) and some misunderstanding ( in the replys) which seems to be resulting in some miscommunication. Because I am brand new at this forum, Please do Not confuse ignorance of Forum specific information and inside terminology with laziness. For example I thought I had been reasonably diligent in reading the "read this first" and bold highlighted info". So for clarification if reading the Pre Box info like this one WELCOME TO RECORDING STUDIO DESIGN It's IMPORTANT that you read this if you hope to gain any help on this site!!! Etc. IF this is what is ment by the statement read "The Stickies" ??? , Then please understand, I did do that. As well an the suggested Recording Manual by JS Also please understand that , I'm not trying to be argumentative when I point out that, by itself with no other explanation, The statement "Read the Stickies". Can actually be confusing and of little use to the uninitiated. For example: While The term "Stickie" as applied to this forum might be self evident to some, It is not to others. For myself after trying to read most of the Forum posting rules and "read this first" info, I have yet to find anything labeled "Stickie" so while it may seem obvious to some familiar with this FORUM and how the term applies to this particular FORUM. it may well not be to new comers. Or perhaps it's just my ignorance, in that I am using a Mac computer so my only experience with or knowledge of the term "Stickies" is the OSX application where there are actual notes in colors. I also found no colored notes of info on this site. Now for more clarification Yes there is certainly many things that are foreign to me in the terminology and particulars of acoustic science and engineering, I am how ever somewhat familiar with some of the basic ideas as they pertain to construction. In the construction that I have done we did several rather high end Home theater rooms i.e. floating the floors on 2x4's with heavy rubber U pads, as well as what was termed "Decoupling" the walls and ceilings. So yes its going to be a long learning curve for me.

Completely agree!

Kev - I think the confusion has arisen because you posted your design queries in the construction forum. The design forum has different stickies that relate to design and layout. Once you have ascertained your layout and design you then move to the construction forum where you ask questions about the construction. I'm going to move this thread to the design forum.

John Sayers wrote:

Kev - I think the confusion has arisen because you posted your design queries in the construction forum. The design forum has different stickies that relate to design and layout. Once you have ascertained your layout and design you then move to the construction forum where you ask questions about the construction. I'm going to move this thread to the design forum.

Thank You

As a starting point may I suggest you look at the sticky - small studio in 3D and download the .skp file and scale it to fit your building. cheers john

John Sayers wrote:

As a starting point may I suggest you look at the sticky - small studio in 3D and download the .skp file and scale it to fit your building. cheers john

Hey thanks much I will be looking these over Just to try to add more info and clarify some things in my mind I'll reiterate some info in hopefully a more organized fashion OPTION #1 1 . IF the hoped for purchase of a piece of property does actually close, then option number 1. will kick in . With this the studio will be a project consisting of using an existing detached building. Which so far consists of an exterior finished walls and roof sitting on concrete slab floor. . The existing interior finishes are 1/2 wafer board OSB nailed onto the wall studs. The vaulted ceiling is 5/8 sheet rock attached to bottom of roof rafters. The building is a rectangle straight gable end as shown in pic and drawing Because I have yet to get access to the inside of the building I have only the dimensions for the exterior. Which are 14' 6" wide 24' long etc. as per drawing I am researching the relative merits of going with either a One room studio, Or a Two room studio At this point I am only seeking answers to some general questions . OVERVIEW Design considerations Sound transfer to exterior of the building is not an issue , as the nearest neighbor is aprox. 5 miles away and sits several hundred feet lower in elevation. So acoustic design decisions will be focused on optimum sound characteristics for recording and mixing. Goals The main focus is as a a personal recording studio for a singer songwriter. I will be recording predominately Acoustic guitar and Vocals, with occasional percussion like a djembe, tambourine, etc. and possible a few tracks of midi instrumentation. There is a possible limited future use of recording other solo or duo acoustic artists in conjunction with a songwriting retreat /workshop perhaps once or twice a year for a period of a week or so each. Current studio Equipment and Acoustic treatments DAW- Pro Tools LE running on a 24" I-Mac , DiGi 002 console, 2 channel tube mic pre, 2 channel AD/DA converter and clock, Monster 2500 power conditioner Acoustic treatments- 10 GIK 244 bass traps Budget TBD But. Will be sufficient for either option .One room or the addition of a second control room At this point and until I can get inside to make some exact measurements. My main question or focus of consideration is more in line with : What is the conventional wisdom for studio design, In terms of optimal acoustic environment ? A one room solution (combo tracking/mixing room) ? OR would a two room solution be considered more desirable ? especially if cost, was not as important as acoustic quality of both the tracking and mixing environments. The main reason I am posing this question is it seems from my research here so far that, The criteria for optimal for the two different environments (Tracking and Mixing) are somewhat different ?? is this correct ?

OPTION #1 ..... Budget TBD But. Will be sufficient for either option

Ummmm. It looks like you forgot to mention "OPTION #2" in there! :shock:

Sound transfer to exterior of the building is not an issue , as the nearest neighbor is aprox. 5 miles away

Great, but what about sound coming the OTHER way? Isolation isn't just to stop the noise you make from getting out. it is also to stop the noise others make from getting in! "Others" here includes things like vehicles on roads, trains, aircraft flying overhead, wind, rain, hail, thunderstorms, people talking, radios playing, animals, etc. Even if you live in the middle of the Atacama desert, you'd still have issues with some of those. Are you SURE that you don't need to think about isolation?

What is the conventional wisdom for studio design, In terms of optimal acoustic environment ? A one room solution (combo tracking/mixing room) ? OR would a two room solution be considered more desirable ?

Personally, I reckon that two rooms is better than one. The only time I'd say that a single room makes more sense is when you are the one and only guy that will ever use it, all by yourself, as a one-man-band, that you will never, ever consider you recording someone else, and where you can get absolutely all your equipment isolated outside of the room. The other possibility would be when you simply don't have enough physical space to build two usable rooms. Apart form that, for me at least, I think it makes more sense to go with two.

The criteria for optimal for the two different environments (Tracking and Mixing) are somewhat different ?? is this correct ?

Yup! Your "mixing room" (generally referred to as the "control room" or "CR" on this forum) should probably be as acoustically neutral as you can possibly make it, neither adding nor subtracting anything from the sound that comes out of the speakers, and carefully designed so that you, at the mix position, only get direct sound in your ears, no reflections, perfect symmetry, etc.. Etc. on the other hand, the "tracking room" (generally referred to here on the forum as the "live room" or "LR") should probably have some kind of character to it, should probably not be symmetrical, and might even have movable parts in it to change the "character", by providing more absorption / reflection / diffusion (or less, as the case may be), at certain points in the room. So the ideas behind the two rooms are kind of different. That's not to say that you can't use a single room for both: just that it makes more sense to have two different environments. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

OPTION #1 Ummmm. It looks like you forgot to mention "OPTION #2" in there! :shock:

Opps sorry , I mentioned it in my OP. However option # 2 would be , if we aren't able to actually close a deal on this piece of property with the existing building we would then buy a a piece of raw land and build a house and studio from the ground up

Great, but what about sound coming the OTHER way? Isolation isn't just to stop the noise you make from getting out. it is also to stop the noise others make from getting in! "Others" here includes things like vehicles on roads, trains, aircraft flying overhead, wind, rain, hail, thunderstorms, people talking, radios playing, animals, etc. Even if you live in the middle of the Atacama desert, you'd still have issues with some of those. Are you SURE that you don't need to think about isolation?

ahh good point I hadn't thought nature sounds. In this case most civilization caused sounds are null - the option #1 piece sits 14 miles from the nearest paved road. and 3 miles across a wildlife management area closed for 6 months in the winter to any human activity except for The Wy. Fish & Game personal and the property owners. But there is certainly at times thunderstorms, occasional wind etc. so point well taken. Thanks

Personally, I reckon that two rooms is better than one. The only time I'd say that a single room makes more sense is when you are the one and only guy that will ever use it, all by yourself, as a one-man-band, that you will never, ever consider you recording someone else, and where you can get absolutely all your equipment isolated outside of the room. Another good thought The other possibility would be when you simply don't have enough physical space to build two usable rooms. Apart form that, for me at least, I think it makes more sense to go with two.

another good thought , Thanks again

Yup! Your "mixing room" (generally referred to as the "control room" or "CR" on this forum) should probably be as acoustically neutral as you can possibly make it, neither adding nor subtracting anything from the sound that comes out of the speakers, and carefully designed so that you, at the mix position, only get direct sound in your ears, no reflections, perfect symmetry, etc.. Etc. on the other hand, the "tracking room" (generally referred to here on the forum as the "live room" or "LR") should probably have some kind of character to it, should probably not be symmetrical, and might even have movable parts in it to change the "character", by providing more absorption / reflection / diffusion (or less, as the case may be), at certain points in the room. So the ideas behind the two rooms are kind of different. That's not to say that you can't use a single room for both: just that it makes more sense to have two different environments. - Stuart -

hey great this is the type input I am after. Thanks much, Kev