It looks like according to this page...
http://www.rwaterguy.com/Quiet%20Rock.htm
...you could make your own NK-521 QuietRock Ultra with a sheet of mass loaded vinyl, two layers of green glue and two sheets of drywall. Would that actually work? Has anyone tried it?
Making your own quietrock?
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 14004.
One thing that might prevent this from working easily is this:
"Green Glue drying time. Do not let dry. Apply Green Glue within 15 minutes. Drywall sheets must be screwed together while the material is still wet."
That sounds like you can't really pre-make sheets of homemade quiet rock and then put them up later. It sounds like you'd have to construct everything directly on the walls?
According to the quietrock patent, they actually use 30 gauge galvanized steel instead of mass loaded vinyl in the middle:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7181891-0-large.jpg
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7181891.html
They also use their own quietglue instead of green glue. Is quiet glue any better than green glue?
Well, I'm sure you COULD do that, and it wouldn't surprise me that some people HAVE done that, but whether or not it works as advertised is entirely up in the air, since that web site posts not test date from any independent labs. He only makes claims, but posts no data... Hmmmm... I always get suspicious when I see that. Not even Green Glue themselves say anything at all about using their product like that, to sandwich a layer of MLV in the middle. On the other hand, you actually can get the same or even BETTER performance, for a much cheaper price, by using GG in the manner it was designed to be used, and that has been tested in real labs, by dumping the MLV and one layer of GG, or by simply replacing the MLV with another layer of drywall. Much cheaper, much more effective. What on earth is the MLV supposed to accomplish that the drywall and GG are not already doing? I don't get it. Sounds like an amateur attempt to do something, based on a deficient nderstanding of how waves travel through walls.Would that actually work? Has anyone tried it?
Thanks for the reply. My understanding from reading posts around here is that quietrock does work but it's just very overpriced. So my thinking was that is you can duplicate quietrock's construction then you can get the same results for less money. Does that sound logical?
The quietrock patent ( http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7181891.html ) does mention using MVL and galvanized steel in the core, along with quietglue and drywall.
So, then my question is what specifically would make it not work if you just duplicated that construction?
I guess I didn't explain myself very well: I'm not saying it doesn't work. (It has lots of mass, so it actually might work) That isn't what I'm saying. What I AM saying is: Why would you bother? You can get equal or better ACTUAL performance (documented), much cheaper and much more easily, so why would you bother? There is ZERO independently documented research on this stuff as far as I can see, so you are on your own as to how it performs at each frequency and under numerous different circumstances. So why would you bother? The manufacturer of some of the products used to make it, makes no claims at all about using his product in that application, yet DOES make proven, documented claims about his product when used as directed, so why would you bother doing int another way? The very same manufacturer points out on his web site that MLV is a very expensive way of doing things, so why would you bother? If you REALLY want better performance than standard construction, and don't mind paying a lot more for it, then forget the steel, forget the MLV, forget the green glue, and just stick a sheet of 1/4" lead in the middle of that sandwich. I guarantee you that it will be hugely more effective than the "poor-man's quiet rock". (Of course, it will cost a small fortune, but it will be REALY good at isolating!). That's the point I was trying to make: Why bother with something that may or may not work, but is way more expensive than stuff that actually DOES work, and has been proven to do so in independent laboratory tests, as well as countless actual studios. Another way of putting it: Why would you want to be a guinea pig, when you even have to PAY to be the guinea pig? - Stuart -So, then my question is what specifically would make it not work if you just duplicated that construction?
That clears it up, thanks for your help!
Actually - if you compare the cost per pound - lead is cheaper than the mass loaded vinyl. The bottom line is that you can build on the wall a better product cheaper by just using geen glue and drywall - multiple layers - so why bother trying to duplicate the quietrock? Even knowing that they have steel in their sandwich doesn't mean you could duplicate the product - you would actually have to buy the product - take it apart - have the steel analyzed to determine it''s actual component contents - is it solid or perf0rated? Analyze and duplicate the exact content of the "glue" (Is it actually glue to attach the members or is it a version of green glue (which ISN'T glue) What is the exact weight and composition of the drywall (different manufacturers drywal have different components and very different material weights) And even then - unless you paid to have it tested - you could not guarantee it's isolation value. I don't understand why everyone is always looking for some easy way out - the answer we give is always the same. RodIf you REALLY want better performance than standard construction, and don't mind paying a lot more for it, then forget the steel, forget the MLV, forget the green glue, and just stick a sheet of 1/4" lead in the middle of that sandwich. I guarantee you that it will be hugely more effective than the "poor-man's quiet rock". (Of course, it will cost a small fortune, but it will be REALY good at isolating!).
Good point, although the patent shows the exact construction so there wouldn't be any guesswork.
It looks like layers of sheetrock and green glue are the way to go unless you need it to be thin, such as on a door in which case replicating quietrock may make more sense than having 4 layers of gypsum.
For "thin", I reckon I'd still skip quietrock and go with something else cheap but even denser than drywall. For one particular wall on my studio, I'm planning to use something called "Duraboard", which is basically a fibercement board that is nearly twice as dense as drywall. So I can get roughly the same isolation in about half the leaf thickness. It's more expensive than drywall, and much harder to work with (hard to cut, damn heavy, more fragile, etc) but I'm willing to make the sacrifice because I need the extra space in the room, which is really tiny. Every millimeter counts. Even though Duraboard is more expensive than drywall, it is still much cheaper than quietrock.It looks like layers of sheetrock and green glue are the way to go unless you need it to be thin, such as on a door in which case replicating quietrock may make more sense than having 4 layers of gypsum.
Wow! I didn't know MLV was that expensive! I haven't looked at prices in a while. Yet another reason to NOT use it. If lead is cheaper, I reckon I'd rather have lead! Just curious, Rod, but have you ever used MLV for anything in any of your designs / builds? Does it have any valid uses, in your opinion, considering the cost? - Stuart -Actually - if you compare the cost per pound - lead is cheaper than the mass loaded vinyl.
It does have valid ues - example - you own a hotel and the 2nd floor guest can hear noise from the bar below at 1 in the morning - MLV draped above the ceiling below hanging loosely will help to cut the noise - t's easily cut to fit around pipes, etc., etc. and it's just as easy to install a 2nd layer as it was the first.... Generally the areas above the ceilings of the 1st floor are filled with crap that would make hard construction (ie: fame and drywall) a royal pain in the butt. So I do not condem it out of hand - but sandwiched between drywall layers is not a good use for it. BESIDES WHICH - THAT IS NOT HOW IT IS MAdE TO WORK - the maximum return on the investment with this product is when it is installed as limp mass - which means behind he drywall - not in between 2 pieces. RodJust curious, Rod, but have you ever used MLV for anything in any of your designs / builds? Does it have any valid uses, in your opinion, considering the cost?
The points in the thread still appply. If you want to build a a TL door yourself, buy Rod's book and follow his plans/directions. AndreIt looks like layers of sheetrock and green glue are the way to go unless you need it to be thin, such as on a door in which case replicating quietrock may make more sense than having 4 layers of gypsum.
Thanks Rod! Appreciated! That gave me an idea for a problem that I have, which is mostly off-topic but might be useful to someone at some point: I'm in the process of installing a second bathroom upstairs, next to an existing bathroom. The old drain plumbing was all cast iron, but the plumber installed all PVC for the new bathroom. However, it makes a lot more noise! Two sections of the drain pipes, each about 6 feet long (one 1" pipe, one 4" pipe) run right through the dining room ceiling area, so I need to quiet that down. What you said makes me think that perhaps it would be a good idea to wrapping those new PVC pipes with a thick layer of fiberglass insulation, then one layer or maybe two layers of MLV around that, before I put in the ceiling. The ceiling will be at least one layer of 5/8 drywall. Would the MLV be worthwhile in that application, or would it be better to just do two layers of 5/8 on the ceiling and forget the MLV? Also, how do you seal the MLV where it wraps around the pipe back onto itself? I can post a photo of what I have, if that would help. - Stuart -MLV draped above the ceiling below hanging loosely will help to cut the noise - t's easily cut to fit around pipes, etc., etc. and it's just as easy to install a 2nd layer as it was the first....
I'm building a new rehearsal studio - 5000 square feet, 14 rooms - and I'm trying to figure out the best way to do the walls and ceilings. Seems like STC only goes down to 100 hz and most bass guitar and drum frequencies are 60-100. So Quietrock and Green Glue and all the other products tested only show Db loss for 100 Hz and above, so how does one know what to use to stop the lower frequencies?
Also, I'm looking for ceiling ideas. I have a 15 ft warehouse to work with. I'm thinking 10-12 ft ceilings. Hard lid? Hard lid + drop down T-bar? Other?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
The reason for the "missing data" is because:
- The STC metric that most ASTM e-90 tests are looking to measure only measures down to 125Hz, and many labs charge extra for frequencies below that.
- US labs are only rated to 80Hz, as flanking limitations of most labs starts to creep in below that. Test data is less reliable the lower you go.
So we build rooms using best practice, although not tested to 20Hz.
Ouch! You are asking for things which need at a minimum for you follow the before you post sticky. As far as isolation below 125 Hz on partitiions. look at NRC IR 586 and IR 761 for starters. Over 350 wall constructions with TL data down to as low as 50 Hz on most partitions. AndreI'm building a new rehearsal studio - 5000 square feet, 14 rooms - and I'm trying to figure out the best way to do the walls and ceilings. Seems like STC only goes down to 100 hz and most bass guitar and drum frequencies are 60-100. So Quietrock and Green Glue and all the other products tested only show Db loss for 100 Hz and above, so how does one know what to use to stop the lower frequencies? Also, I'm looking for ceiling ideas. I have a 15 ft warehouse to work with. I'm thinking 10-12 ft ceilings. Hard lid? Hard lid + drop down T-bar? Other?
Hi everybody
Interesting thread
“They also use their own quietglue instead of green glue. Is quiet glue any better than green glue?”
Yes it is. I have checked their test data. They both have the same test results but quietglue is 20% cheaper.
Interesting point “just stick a sheet of 1/4" lead in the middle of that sandwich. I guarantee you that it will be hugely more effective than the "poor-man's quiet rock".”
But that is a lot of work.
nph11 “so how does one know what to use to stop the lower frequencies?”
Good point. This is always the concern.
And Quietrock(510) (4’x8’=$40 or 4’x24’=$120) will cost around the same as MLV(4’x25’=$110).
"David" since you work for that company, perhaps you could substantiate your point with some lab data?
Ted - it's no more SPAM than your signature and your posts.
David, the serious here work on the basis of trust but verify. The more cynical "say show me the test data or it ain't so." Would you please provide the test data for the Quietglue?
Andre