Studio Walls . . . Sheet Rock or Wood

Greetings. I have been very busy reading the book by Rod Gervais called "Home Recording Studio; Build It Like The Pros" and I have come across a question that does not seem to be covered, allthough it is touched on briefly. On page 3 of the book, there is a black and white photograph of a gorgeous recording room with a piano in it. Very high ceiling and WOOD WOOD WOOD everywhere. I have sought (and failed to find) more information about the science that is being applied there. We've been working hard on our studio design and it's time to make some decisions about the wall surfaces. My questions are basic. WHERE would I find more information about what kind of wood, how large are the pieces, what kind of patterns should we utilize, do we need several layers, do we want some walls to be wooden and others to be diffused via some form of "shelf-like" system . . . ? I've been doing my homework so hopefully nobody will feel the need to hammer me again. The included photo should explain almost any detail that I might otherwise clumsily explain. Thank you for any insight or direction you might provide. -J

First you should read the forum rules before posting. But due that i'm in a good mood right now, i'll share my thoughts. Big rooms behave different that small rooms, perhaps, a big live room kept untreated might sound great for drums or a real piano, You can even attach false wood slats just for looks and still have a nice big room sound. For small rooms, you might keep an eye on low bass build ups and strange modes that might play with your recordings, and then you should look for devices like resonators, absorption or whatever you need to contain those bad things. Some big live rooms found in famous studios still have some acoustic treatment, some are pure brickwalls, others are fancy modern buildings designed by modern studio designers to get a perfect or desired response and reverb. It all depends on what sound you are looking for

I do appreciate your information. I have always been impressed with the aspect of the internet that allows kind people to share what they know so that total strangers that they will never meet might improve themselves and their circumstances. As for these rules about posting, I was operating under the assumption that people with lots of knowledge about this subject have lots to do besides read several paragraphs of details. I may get "banned" for saying this but I find it hard to comprehend why I see so many posts on this site where people are chastised and criticized for being brief and asking simple questions. I've posted before and got hammered before as well . . . for asking questions. I often see people asking what seems like "stupid questions" about Pro Tools on the Digidesign DUC and never once have I used my experience and knowledge to make them feel ignorant or make myself feel somehow "superior". I was trying to be brief for everybody ELSE, assuming that if I'm reading this BOOK by Mr. Gervais, I am already in the midst of being educated on most of the things I needed to know. I was asking about the wooden wall surfaces. It wasn't covered in the book in great detail. I could have not even been building a studio and that seems like a great issue for discussion on a musical forum such as this. Perhaps I am missing the point of this website.

Wood is wood. Sometimes they are slot walls, sometimes they are hiding bass traps, sometimes they are just aesthetics. People use wood because it looks good as well. specially stained

Jhon - 3 points. 1 - why is everything square in your design. Parallel walls produce standing waves which are a no no. 2 - it appwears you are building a room within a room construction therefore there is no advantage in using staggered studs, it's just a waste of timber. 3 - if you want any further advice please follow the forum rules as Javier pointed out and state your location!! you could be in timbuktu for all we know!

I edited my profile. For the record, I am located right in the center of Virginia, just outside of Lynchburg, in the United States of America. We are planning on building a recording studio that I can work in and occasionally rent out to other musicians for them to utilize. I have spent the last ten years working in my basement, in what most laymen would describe as an "adequate basement studio". I am sure that the configuration would be be deemed "completely unusable" by the standards on this website, but I've been successfully managing to make people happy for ten years. We (my wife and I) have decided that it is a good time to build something more suitable. It should be mentioned that we are not located in a "hotbed of musical excitement" such as Nashville, TN, so if I'm going to build something, it would be important that the building can be used for something ELSE in the event that I sell the property. I do realize that many of the elements that studio building is "supposed to contain" may be ignored in my illustration, and that is why I am here. I would like to "correct" the things about the studio design that are "Absolutely Non-Negotiable" as far as being detrimental to it being MUSICAL. We are completely in the planning stage. We are, at this point, expecting this building to cost about $100K. My illustration is meant to illustrate the various elements that I WANT the studio to include. I would absolutely LOVE to discuss this with a professional studio builder but as I have found out, there are not many guys locally that comprehend what I am trying to do AT ALL. This has been an uphill battle. The current plan is to have a building two stories high with a LOFT over the "control room (etc.) side. This would allow for all kinds of odd angles that I have been told would be musically helpful. I was planning on having a wooden surface on the floor, but have not decided what to do there as well. It's WIDE OPEN as far as what we should do. I feel as if we have a reasonable budget for what I want to do. HOW LOUD are we? That will run the gamut. I work on dozens of different things and the building hasn't been built, but I would like to be able to record live metal bands when we want to and contain that sound. The studio is going to be built in an OPEN FIELD on about 4 acres of property. We are on a CORNER lot, so we should be able to accomplish that. We're in a fairly rural location. I hope this further explains my intentions. Thank you all.

"We are completely in the planning stage. We are, at this point, expecting this building to cost about $100K. My illustration is meant to illustrate the various elements that I WANT the studio to include. I would absolutely LOVE to discuss this with a professional studio builder but as I have found out, there are not many guys locally that comprehend what I am trying to do AT ALL. This has been an uphill battle." That is what John Sayers does so you are at the right place to get the right guy to design you a building/room that will perform in the right manner. You have a lot of money and many opportunity to fail if you do not incorporate someone with his specific knowledge. Or you could spend a few years of your life trying to get some of the basics down...it really is a complicated thing, even if some folks present it like it is simple.

I would like to know what it costs to get Mr. Sayers personally involved in this building project. I will attempt to figure this out on my own, but if anybody feels like pointing me in the right direction, I would be grateful. From what I have seen, it seems like John Sayers has designed so many studios that simply "picking a design" amongst his various creations would be possible. I love working on music in and outside of a recording studio. I love writing songs and singing them. I DON'T enjoy being belittled for asking questions. It defeats the concept and feeling of "community" that I have always worked hard to cultivate amongst my local musicians and myself. I work with some fairly well known musicians and have already achieved far more than I ever thought possible as a musician and a technician. Hopefully it doesn't sound too "whiny" but I really can't wait to be done with this part of it. Building a studio is interesting to me, and I want a general understanding of what is being built, but I will be very excited when the building is standing and I can just tune up and create again. We aren't all designed to be "everything". I am not a studio designer/builder and I sure as hell don't want to be a BAD one.

John gave you 2 really good points that will save you money and inprove the sound of your design. Why don't you have another crack at your design (with the changes) and repost while you have Johns attention. Some amazing studio have come out of this forum

I would like to know what it costs to get Mr. Sayers personally involved in this building project.

I'd suggest that you send John a private message to ask about his rates. I'm certain he can design and build a great studio for you, as he has done for many others. But like Lilth said, he already gave you two pieces of great and very pertinent advice, for free! And if you re-design with those in mind and post again, I'm sure he (and others) will give you more great and very pertinent comments. And will continue to do so, refining and improving your design bit by bit, until it is great. Or you can pay him to do it all for you, if you don't have the time and inclination to slowly learn how to do it yourself. It works both ways. It still amazes me that guys like John, Rod, Eric, Andre and all the others freely post their expert advice here, for the world to see, at no cost at all, when they could easily keep it to themselves and sell it to us for lots of money! Incredible! From my point of view, I can live with having to do the hard part myself and just getting the occasional nudge in the right direction from the experts when I screw up, because I'm just damned grateful that some of the best studio designers and acoustical in the world would bother to give me the exact same advice for FREE that they charge other people lots of money for, and make a living out of it! I can live with that. But I do realize that not everyone is like me (what a shame! :) ), and this system doesn't necessarily work for others, who need to get their answers fast, in great detail, and don't have the time or inclination to learn all about acoustics first. Well, those are the guys who end up paying John et. al. to do it all for them, and I'm REALLY glad that those guys are around too, because that keeps bread on John's table, and allows him to come here and give away the same advice to the rest of us, just at a much slower rate, and in far less detail. So it works for everyone, those who pay and the rest of us who freeload here. But I still do take off my hat to the experts here, who have the generosity and patience to deal with the rest of us! It's not surprising that their answers are abbreviated and sometimes curt, or even cutting. Man, if dealing with that is the only price I have to pay for the opinion of the best experts in the world, then damn, what a bargain!!! ( OK; I'll stop ranting now. It's bedtime, here, anyway.... ) - Stuart -

"As for these rules about posting, I was operating under the assumption that people with lots of knowledge about this subject have lots to do besides read several paragraphs of details. I may get "banned" for saying this but I find it hard to comprehend why I see so many posts on this site where people are chastised and criticized for being brief and asking simple questions." No one gets banned here brother, if that were to happen, it would have been me already. I can help you or at least point you to the reason why folks get chastised and or criticized. Do you remember the detail you and your family put into building your house? Do that times 12. This is not for the faint of heart or weaklings, pretty much like the music industry in general is. I see in your posts that you make advances toward you being belittled or not being taken in a respectful manner. Within each post, as is ALWAYS the case, there is information you can use, as Lil said. But folks begin to miss that. If I may say, the biggest problem is that everyone is a carpenter as far as they know. But this isn't carpentry it is building a structure that requires, at least, concrete technicians, electricians, framers, sheetrockers, HVAC mechanics, roofers and sometimes plumbers, at the least. That is to build a room. But then in this area you need specific knowledge, specific hardware, specific tolerances, etc. No one is asking you to step down...these good people are just saying, if you want it, step up! And once you realize we are your friends, we can help, trust me, these guys and that one girl can get it done.

I have read your response many times Soundman and I am hearing you. My initial response to all of this has been somewhat "thin-skinned" and it's now sinking in a bit better. My interest in getting somebody to help me with this is less about laziness and more about knowing my own strengths . . . I feel like my brain freezes up whenever math is introduced to a conversation. I don't know why. It's a weakness and I know it is. This site is so full of information that nobody has time to "play nice and hold my hand" though it . . . Somebody said that this is not for the "faint of heart" and he's right. I need to quit crying and start learning . . . and so I have. I have spent breakfast time studying "The Recording Manual" again and pressed my builder to do the same. It is interesting to me how FRIENDLY the manual is written and presented. I was probably getting the wrong impression of this whole page from the looks of the manual. I also have to admit that I had not NOTICED that John Sayers had chimed in personally . . . so now I feel like an even bigger jackass. That said, I can probably apply some of the basic principals presented and still keep the "basic premise" intact. We definitely need to alter our plan of having these "rectangular" booths in favor of what I see in every single one of the "3-D drawings" on Mr. Sayer's main page. There's so many variations on the theme, but they all have common traits that we didn't know about, therefore didn't incorporate into our concept. One thing I have wondered about is that we are starting from NOTHING, it's not a basement studio. We can start from the ground up and do ANYTHING without having the difficulty of conforming to a house upstairs, etc. That said, I noticed that in all the examples on Mr. Sayer's page, each featured studio seemed to be "one floor" buildings. We were planning on having "everything that matters" on the bottom floor, but our building is going to be two stories high (for height, since that seems attractive sound-wise) with a vaulted ceiling and a loft over the control room side. This would provide for a lounge area/office area and lots of additional odd angles. The reason I am concerned is that NONE OF MR. SAYER'S DESIGNS DO THAT. I'm worried that we're barking up the wrong tree, so to speak. I'll go ahead and ask: SHOULD WE GET RID OF THE TWO STORY with a LOFT idea?? I thought having more open air would be great but since I don't see ONE example of it anywhere, I feel like it's worth asking. Some things are better concepts in my imagination than they'll ever be in real life. That said, we're re-examining our plan and making changes that will improve it musically and overall. Like I said, we're starting from nothing and we have enough of a budget to create something that will sound nice, we just gotta iron out all the big ugly wrinkles.

"Somebody said that this is not for the "faint of heart"" Brien, X or xSpace....just don't call me late for supper ;)

JhonAckerman wrote:

I'll go ahead and ask: SHOULD WE GET RID OF THE TWO STORY with a LOFT idea?? I thought having more open air would be great but since I don't see ONE example of it anywhere, I feel like it's worth asking. Some things are better concepts in my imagination than they'll ever be in real life.

No. People here will help you with the advantageous and disadvantageous of your concept. Answering all the sticky questions will help this process. Good luck! Andre

Thank you Andre. I'm trying to get that 90% together. What you said is totally true. I feel like once we actually KNOW WHAT TO BUILD, this will seem easy. Right now? I feel like a lost dog. ha ha ha Seriously though, I spent some time today going over the price of certain materials. Holy crap this is complicated.

HI again, I like this part of it.

One thing I have wondered about is that we are starting from NOTHING, it's not a basement studio. We can start from the ground up and do ANYTHING without having the difficulty of conforming to a house upstairs, etc.

Lucky, lucky you! Most people here would KILL to have such freedom in their studio design! You have carte blanche! Man, you are making me turn green with envy....

On page 3 of the book, there is a black and white photograph of a gorgeous recording room with a piano in it. Very high ceiling and WOOD WOOD WOOD everywhere. I have sought (and failed to find) more information about the science that is being applied there.

If you are actually thinking of doing such a room, I would seriously suggest that you need to have really large budget, and you really need to hire John, Rod or someone with their track record to do it for you. That sure doesn't look like an average home DIY studio project! You'll need to have lots of zeros on the end of your budget figure, too.

I was operating under the assumption that people with lots of knowledge about this subject have lots to do besides read several paragraphs of details.

Very true, but they also can't help you much if you don't give them enough to go on! The more pertinent data you put in your posts, the more likely you are to get help. Not knocking you, just pointing it out.

I often see people asking what seems like "stupid questions" about Pro Tools on the Digidesign DUC and never once have I used my experience and knowledge to make them feel ignorant or make myself feel somehow "superior".

Actually, that isn't the issue here at all. The only "stupid" question is the one you DIDN'T ask. Once again, I'm not knocking you here, just pointing out the problem. The real issue here is that folks here just get so damn tired of having to repeat the basic stuff over and over and over again for newbies who come along and jump right in, after NOT reading the FAQ and the posts all over each section of the forum that say "Do not post until you have read and complied with everything below". If only all newcomers would actually read and abide by that, my guess is EVERYONE would be much happier, and much nicer. It's not that questions are stupid. Not at all. It is that they have already been answered a million times on the forum (if you'll excuse the exaggeration for effect)! The "Do not post until..." threads make it abundantly clear where to find those basic answers, and when people don't bother to do that and ask for the million and first time "How do I float my bedroom floor on the second floor?", then you really can't blame the regular posters for getting just a little annoyed at the question! The thing is, we KNOW that the answers to those basic types of questions are here, and can be found within just a few minutes of using the search feature, or a few hours of random reading of threads. The question in and of itself is NOT dumb. It is smart! What makes it annoying is that the answer is already here, phrased in fifty different ways, in fifty different threads, at the very least. To be honest, your question about wood isn't like that at all. It isn't dumb in the least. But I didn't even try to answer it simply because I don't know the answer, mainly because I don't know what you are trying to do! Which in turn is because you didn't explain it in detail. If you want to know weather wooden slot resonators will work in your control room, and you then go on to describe the basic plans for your control room, along with a basic SketchUp model, dimensions, budget, genre, loudness, and all the other things asked in the "Do not post...." thread, then sure, I can answer that for you! so can many others. And maybe offer some additional advice, too. The real experts would here would probably give you stacks of advice, if you asked like that. But just asking where to find info on using wood the way Rod used it on page 3 of his book, does not tell me a thing about what you have, what you want, or anything else. Once again, I'm not knocking you here: just trying to point out WHY you got the response you did. Yes, you are partly right: nobody wants to waste time searching through pages of pointless drivel to find out what you plan to do, but they at least need a basic idea of your plans, or they simply cannot answer your question at all. I'll shut up now, before you think I'm picking on you! :) I'm not. really! - Stuart -

that NONE OF MR. SAYER'S DESIGNS DO THAT. I'm worried that we're barking up the wrong tree, so to speak.

this one does have a loft

Nice!

That's a "lofty" design!

To Mr. Sayers, Both of those designs look fantastic. I will have to contact you and learn more. They're amazing looking. We are at such a stand-still with the builder right now . . . this may be just what I'm looking for. To Lillith_Envy . . . your clumsy attempt at humor adds absolutely nothing to this conversation. "Wow look . . . he's mocking me!! How clever!!" So helpful. "Wow . . . . it's like he used the computer to BLANK OUT YOUR PLAN!! ISN'T THAT UNBELIEVABLE!!??!" Yeah, in 7th Grade. For Soundman Stewart . . . you're golden man. I totally understand. You state your case very well and the problems with this studio design AND my question posting are all mine. Specifically, the problem is that we've bought land and "decided to build a studio" but now, here we are at a time when I thought we'd be half done and we haven't even started because I KNOW THAT WE WOULD BE BUILDING THE WRONG THING. So I scramble about, trying to "save it" schedule-wise but it just cannot be done. Much more research needs to be done. Of course, if we can somehow work with John Sayer's brilliant plans, however that would work between Virginia USA and Australia, my learning curve will be accelerated simply by seeing how things are laid out and ultimately watching it be constructed. -J

Jhon, that wasn't just mocking humor from Lilith, if you ask me: I reckon that was her way of telling, in her own diplomatic way, that maybe you need to start again with a blank sheet of paper... I think. ( Correct me if I'm wrong, Lilith! ) - Stuart -

I was annoyed at first but I'm cool now. Sorry Lillith. It's "crunch time" and I'm the one getting crunched!! I am pondering the more "open" design" drawing . . . I love them both but that one is more open and unless that's just a "phase" of the other one, I can't wait to see what his response to my E-mail is. This is starting to feel exciting again. I've been down in the dumps for a month.

Greetings from the land of "learning studio building the hard way" and I have totally destroyed and rebuilt my design. I have tried to apply some of the things I've seen and still be somewhat original. Hopefully I've given my details in the previous posts and posting this for observation is acceptable.

That looks a bit better, except for a couple of points about the CR: The room is now wider than it is long. The ideal is to have your speakers firing down the long axis of the room, rather than across the short axis. You seem to have a sink in the rear corner of the CR! Is that a sink? If so, then I reckon you would not want to do that! Several major issues come to mind: noise from running water, humidity from water, splashed water, acoustic isolation issues (water pipes are greater conductors of sound), and probably a few other too. There is also the issue that everyone has to go through the CR to get to the bathroom! Probably not a good idea to have the bathroom directly attached to the CR anyway, for the same reasons mentioned above. I think I'd try to separate all the utility areas from the acoustic areas. You have no place to put your corner bass trapping! All four vertical corners are occupied, three of them with doors and the fourth with the sink. You also have no place to put your speaker soffits: once again, the front doors are in the way. Finally, you do not seem to have any isolation at all between your rooms! I see what might be two-leaf walls around the entire perimeter, but all the other walls seem to be just a single leaf. I'd also suggest that you do your design model in SketchUp, where ii is much easier to make changes. - Stuart -