Barefoot Ground Studios

Hi everyone! I had a studio built in the last city I lived in, mostly for my own use. I am a working independent engineer working mostly in Nashville and New York. I have been given the opportunity to work from home mixing and editing. Plus I have wanted to build a real studio for a while now at the house. I will be running an PTHD rig with a c|24 console. I'm looking to be able to record 16-24 ch. live if needed. I'm in the states and need help with planning the rooms. My good friends will be helping me, one is a machinist, one is an electrical engineer/electrician/tube guy, and I lived a former life doing woodwork. Enough about me, lets get started... I'm not too worried about noise leakage out and I listen at 95db usually, c weighting. My neighbors don't mind me playing drums in the downstairs room so... :shot: I would love for my budget to be around $1000-$2000, but will spend a little more if needed. Also I get OC703 for $90 a box (Twelve 2" thick 2'x4' sheets). The .skp file has two rooms, both as close to scale as possible, 1/2" here, 1/2" there. The smaller room is the control room, best we start there. It is on the second floor, not touching the downstairs live room. From the mix position I will be sitting facing the window. To the left are two 4' wide doors. They go to a pass through closet that is 2' deep. I don't care about accessing the doors closest to the window. The closet space will be used for a machine room(computer)/storage of cables and such. The door behind me goes out to the hallway. The walls are sheet rock and I have carpet down, but will be changing that to a hard, undetermined surface (probably bamboo). My main speakers are Event ASP8's (I want soffit mounts for them) , as well as little Sony bookshelf speakers that will stay on the console. As for the downstairs, larger area, I will reference from facing the red wall with the black square. That is a brick wall and fireplace. To the right is a sliding glass door that leads to the back yard. The half of the door farthest from the brick wall can be covered, however there is a floor vent in front of it. Then to the left of the fireplace is a large open doorway that leads to the entryway and a closet door. then behind me would be the kitchen with an open doorway and a passthrough with bar seating on this side. The walls in here are covered in wood paneling with sheetrock under that. I need to keep the doorways and the passthrough open when not in use for recording. The floor in here also has carpet which will be removed and the concrete slab will be stained, as it is cheaper, plus no trees need to be cut down for wood floors that way. There are also three beams that run the width of the room along the ceiling, evenly spaced. That pretty much describes the rooms, let me know what your ideas are and ask me whatever questions you'd like. Thanks, Daniel

I just need some Ideas to get the ball rolling... I know how to build soffit mounts and I'm learning about the slat diffs, I just need a little direction. On to the new .skp file. The yellow is is OC703 to absorb the reflections off of the computer monitors (I use two), as well as the reflections coming off of the desk. The brown is for the slat diffusers. I also plan to add absorption panels to the rear sides to pick up first reflections. I'm not sure what to think of the closet space, as well as what to do to the rear wall. Keep in mind that these mockups are not to scale. Any suggestions? All of the info from the rest of the site is overwhelming me, to many ideas, too little time to read them all. I have about 2-3 months to complete it. I also forgot to mention that I want to put a large flat panel TV in front of the mix position to see the people downstairs on the cameras I'm installing, or to watch movies on!

I have something that may be of interest in my signature to get the ball rolling:

So what if I don't need the isolation? What if I just want the rooms to sound good? Most of the stuff in there is based on Isolation. I understand how absorption/diffusion works, I just want to know if I am headed in the right direction. I don't have the time to tear it all down if I don't like it. The link is a great intro into things, however I have read it all before. I learned some about acoustics at Berklee while I was there too. I have read all over the site since 2006, but some of the things I need don't seem to be covered very well (like what to do with openings that when not recording need to stay open). As far as the back wall is concerned I kind of figured I will have to build the room to figure out what to do about the back wall, I just needed to find out if I was right in waiting. Obviously this site is about learning everything by reading it and no grains of wisdom for people on a time crunch. That's cool, I just thought it was a teaching/learning thing, not an archive. I guess I misunderstood it all this time, now I get it. By overwhelming I mean "I don't have the time to read and figure it all out in this short of time." Am I headed in the right direction? I feel that I am based on looking at this: *.skp download* http://johnlsayers.com/Stuff/components.skp

"The link is a great intro into things, however I have read it all before" I guess I have not yet understood your question(s) You seem to know what you need to know and do, why are you asking for, or rather, what kind of help are you asking for? Free help? Help that exceeds your knowledge? If John Sayers is a "read all that before" and you have actually retained any of it...you really should not require any more advice. Give John a PM, he knows what you want Good luck, Brien

The brown is for the slat diffusers.

Do you mean "slot resonators"? I don't think you'd want to put diffusers at your first reflection points! In fact, I don't think you'd want diffusers at all in such a small control room! Normally, you'd put thick absorption there, at least 6" thick.

I know how to build soffit mounts

Well, I guess you are going to only mix while standing up, and must be rather tall? If not, then I'm curious as to why you have the acoustic axes of your speakers at roughly 1.8 m above the floor, yet they are not tilted. I didn't do the math, but it looks to me like even if they were tilted to the maximum recommended EBU angle, then they'd still be aimed too high to intercept your ears and also hit the 25cm intersection point. They also seem to be aimed a bit too far forward to place your ears at the 38% point. Is there a reason for that? In other words, there seem to be serious geometry issues with your speaker and mix position layout. The speakers should be at 1.2 m, or can be slightly higher if need be, tilted down by up to 10 degrees. The acoustic axes should aim at your ears, and intersect at an angle of 60 to 90 degrees at a point roughly 25cm behind your ears. Your ears should be roughly at 38% of the room depth (inner-leaf front wall to inner-leaf rear wall). None of that is written in stone, and can be varied slightly as needed, within reason, and while understanding what the consequences will be.

I know how to build soffit mounts ... The yellow is is OC703 to absorb the reflections off of the computer monitors

so if you know how to build soffit mounts, then why are you covering the entire infinite baffle surface with 703? That looks more like a LEDE room, a concept that was abandoned years ago in favor of the RFZ room, which is what most people build today. You might want to re-think those soffits, since they are unworkable as you have them now. The infinite baffle must be an sold, massive, dense surface. It cannot be a soft surface, if you expect it to do its job. You also need to make sure that your speakers have bass roll-off controls that allows them to be used flush-mounted, or you need to use a parametric equalizer to do the job. You adjust it while carefully measuring the response, Hz by Hz, across the entire low end.

I also plan to add absorption panels to the rear sides to pick up first reflections.

The rear sides are way, way behind your first reflection points! Either that, or your model is HUGELY out of proportion.

I'm not sure what to think of the closet space,

Probably could just treat the doors with absorption. Attach reasonably thick absorbers to them. But won't the closet itself act as some kind of resonator? Or you could build a plug, or even a rolling gobo. several options.

Keep in mind that these mockups are not to scale. Any suggestions?

Well, I hate to be harsh, but if they are not to scale, then why did you post them? How can you expect people to offer useful advice if your model isn't even accurate: My suggestion would be to make your model accurate, address the issues I mentioned above, then post it again.

I listen at 95db usually, c weighting.

That's really loud! Twice as loud in fact (subjectively), as the normal maximum recommended level, which is 85 dB. At 95 dB your absolute maximum exposure time is 2 hours per day. If you go just a fraction louder to 97 dB, the maximum exposure time drops to 90 minutes.) If you go beyond those maximum exposure times, you run a very high risk of suffering permanent irreversible hearing damage, tinnitus, and a host of other hearing problems. At 85 dB you can listen safely 8 hours a day, but most professional engineers that I know of listen at even lower levels most of the time, and only turn it up to 85 to check the mix every now and then. Listening 8 hours a day at 95 dB, and you'll be partially deaf in a month. Irreversibly so.

As far as the back wall is concerned I kind of figured I will have to build the room to figure out what to do about the back wall,

I don't understand why! It should be easy to figure out what you should do on the back wall. That kind of goes without saying, if you want a room that sounds good and produces mixes that translate well: Bass traps in the corners, absorption or hangers for most of the rest, and perhaps some slot resonators: How thick / deep the absorption / hangers are depends on several factors, not the least of which is: how much space can you afford to sacrifice?

Obviously this site is about learning everything by reading it and no grains of wisdom for people on a time crunch.

Well, yeah, it IS a web site, so reading kind of is necessary! :) Seriously, folks here really WILL help you out with those "grains of wisdom" . . . once you have your basic ducks in a row. But if you come here expecting someone to design your room for you from scratch inside a week, for free, then you probably won't find that! You also won't find people to pat you on the back all the time and say that you are doing fine when you aren't. What you will find is people blunt enough to look at your design, and say "Why the hell are you doing that? That's dumb!". Some visitors here don't like the up-front, blunt, in your face "That's wrong. rip it out and do it again this way" comments that you see here all the time, and don't last long here. They can't handle it. But frankly that's why I love this place, because I know I can rely on someone to tell me exactly that, no holds barred, blunt and true, when I'm about to screw up, or just did screw up. That alone is invaluable. Would it be nicer if everyone couched their response in flowery, perfumed, polite diplomatic language, carefully caressing each other's egos so as not to offend? Yeah. sure it would be "nicer", but it wouldn't be effective! Since my studio build is my time and my money, I'll take "offensive" over "ineffective" any day! If I was paying the folks here to do the work for me, then yeah, I'd expect to be treated nicely, like a client, and not insulted by cutting comments. But since I'm getting all this world-class advice for FREE, and from some of the leading experts on the entire planet, then I really don't mind HOW they dish out the advice! I'll take it any way it comes. Some folks don't like that, and can't handle it. But me? I'll bight my tongue and suck it up, simply because the advice I'm getting here is the best there is, anywhere, and it is FREE!

By overwhelming I mean "I don't have the time to read and figure it all out in this short of time."

Once again I hate to be so blunt, but if that's the case then you probably shouldn't even be building it! You only have four options for building a studio: 1) spend the time to learn and design it right and build it right by yourself: 2) Don't spend that time, and end up building it wrong (that's guaranteed): 3) Pay a professional designer/builder (like John) to do it for you in the time available: 4) don't build at all. Option 1 takes somewhere from a few months to a few years, is relatively inexpensive, and usually results in success. Option 2 takes anywhere from a few hours to a few weeks, is much cheaper, and always results in failure. Option 3 takes a few weeks to a few months, is more expensive, and practically always results in success. Option 4 is instant, and saves you a stack of time, money and frustration, but doesn't get you a studio at all. The choice is up to you. There are no other options. I hope you don't feel insulted, or offended, because my intention is not to insult or offend. My intention is simply to tell it like it is, lay it all out in the open for you, warts and all, so you can make your own decision, just like others did for me when I first arrived here. I made my decision, so I'm still here, still learning, still designing, and still getting whacked across the head with a 2x4 every now and then. And that's 18 months later. And I haven't laid a single 2x4 yet, because the more I learn about acoustics, the more I realize there is to know, and the more I understand that my ducks are still not totally in a row. So if you want my help, I can help you in certain parts of your design, but not all by any means. And I'll do that, as long as you don't mind the attitude issue, and accept the advice in the spirit it is offered: to help you do it right. I'm sure others here will do the same. But you have to do the basic leg work yourself, such as only posting accurate models, not confusing terms, and clarifying what you don't know, what you think you know, and what you do know. - Stuart -

xSpace, I need help that exceeds my knowledge? Soundman2020, 1. I meant slot resonators, sorry. 2. The soffit speakers are to be about 4 ft. high at the bottom. I know they need to be angled down but I'm not sure how to do that yet in sketchup. the X axis will be more shallow also, however I also do not know how to set angles. 3. I went nuts and saved the wrong version. The top half of it should have a wood surface over the 703, my bad. 4. The plan is out of proportion, the resos will be shorter than depicted. 5. I am worried about the closet resonating too much. I still need to access it from time to time. I thought about using a 6" thick panel on them. Too much, not enough? 6. I will try to make it more accurate. I have only used to program for a week, I'm still learning. 7. Typo, the 9 should be an 8. 8. I don't know how to put a bass trap in the corner with the door where it is. That is part of my rear wall hang up, the rest is deciding what to use reso or absorption, as well as how big/thick to make them. 9. I was frustrated by the lack of ANY comments. I am fine with truthful comments, like I said I'm on a crunch. Thanks for the help, sorry for the bad model, I'll bone up on the program.

It seems like concrete will be an okay choice for the floor in the live room, as far as I can tell wood wouldn't make much of a difference. Is that assumption correct? I've tried searching for it on this site but the engine says that the words are too common.

A lot of people here use just bare concrete floors, with great success. Some stain it for really great effects, or cut it to imitate tiles. Others who don't like the look of concrete put laminate flooring on top. It's more an issue of personal choice.

That's what I thought. I'm going to stain it a darkish brown with a little red tint to it. I've come up with some ideas thanks to Mr. Sayers. I am going to use a modified version of the small studio drawing at http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5457 for the control room. I can't figure out how to put a trap in the corner by the door though. I'm wondering if I should move the door to the middle of the wall? I'm super excited to get it under way however, there are still many things to decide. Mostly sourcing wood and fabric and figuring out what to do with the closet space. I don't need a huge resonating chamber along one wall. :? I'll have a sketchup done soon.

I'm wondering if I should move the door to the middle of the wall?

I reckon that if you can put the door in the middle, then sure, go for it! If I recall correctly, John's design is only like that because he had to fit in the existing door in someone's garage. But if you are free to put the door anywhere, then sure! Put it where it makes the most sense, then post your design for comment. - Stuart -