Basement studio design help

Starting to plan studio. Hopefully I can put enough info/upfront work into this first post to warrent a few replies :) Basically we recently purchased a home that has a decent basement and because there is four bedrooms between the main and second floor the wife has said the basement is all mine (except the existing Laundry room)!! :D The basement is pretty much open (see pictures attached, PLEASE ignore the mess we are in the process of renos, and we just moved in). The frost walls are pretty badly insulated and will be replaced. For right at the moment I am just looking for design suggestions, as I need some extra eyes on this sucker. So on with the info, hopefully I can keep this concise but as informative as possible. BACKGROUND: Been recording for almost ten years now wherever I could. My own rented home, parents home, professional commercial studios, etc. For the most part my basement studio will be a project space where my band and friends can jam/record as needed. I have been a member of this forum and searching/reading as much as possible since 2005. I have also been studying my copy of Rod's Book (excellent work by the way!) LOCATION: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. House is on a fairly busy street. I can't hear cars from inside the basement, but I can hear the odd fire truck (siren) that goes by. I haven't had a full band in the basement, but if I play my monitors at 100dB (Fast C Weighted) at the mix position, I get a reading of 82 dB directly above on the main floor (living room), which would be at about 55 dB with the TV off and no people around. With the same volume at mix position I get about 77dB outside my basement window which is about what I get from the busy street, now of course I realize that monitors cannot compare to a full band, so I will need to get my band in here and take readings and have a walk outside to hear what I hear. I'm not too worried about sound isolation to the outside, as the neighbors party a lot so they can deal with the odd recording session at reasonable hours. I would, however, like to do my best to isolate the studio from the rest of the house. For reference the neghbors to the North are about 22' away at the shortest distance, and the neighbors to the south are about 21' at the shortest point. The back yard is quite large with a back lane, so neighbors to the East aren't an issue and the busy street is accross from a boulevard to the west. EXISTING BUILDING STRUCTURE: 1500 SF Semi-Bungalow (loft). Concrete/wood construction built in the 1950's.The basement is primarily concrete foundation walls with 4 above grade windows. The floor is a concrete slab with stick on tile (I will probably simply keep the existing floor tile as there is a possibility of Asbestos). The furnace/Laundry room is quite large. Basement walls are 7'-6" tall (inside dimensions) with 2x8 fir floor joists with T&G Subfloor. Most of the main floor is Oak Hardwood over the subfloor. There is a main beam that runs down the center of the basement (again see drawing), 3 steel Teleposts support this beam. The main room is 34'x22'. There is also a duct that runs the length of the basement causing the ceiling height to be 6'-7" at this point. The walls and ductwork are currently covered in wood panelling. I have also indicated a plumbing stack location that obviously cannot be moved. It would be nice to build a bathroom (toilet/sink) in this location, but I am quickly eating up real estate here, so I'll just ignore that thought for now :) BUDGET: I have about $10,000 CDN that I have been saving for this project, however, that being said I am part owner in my fathers interior systems company (Drywall, Steel Studs, Insulation, T-bar etc) and I have been given permission to use our account to buy material on our account so this will work out nicely. We are also quite handy so we will be doing most (all) of the work ourselves. We also have electricians and plumbers in the family that I can ask favours of :) CONSTRUCTION: So naturaly that being said I am going to be using Steel Studs and drywall as the main construction components. We also have excellent access to Roxul product here in Edmonton, Safe n Sound and RHF product. For the most part I will be recording metal/punk/rock bands, so loud drums, loud guitars, and generally loud folks. this Studio will be in a basement in Alberta so there won't be a need for Air conditioning. I will need to run heat runs and returns, and I will need to "sound proof" these. NEEDS/WANTS: I would like to record a full band comfortably, so I'm suspecting much of my Square footage will be taken up by a pretty large tracking room. I would also like to have at least two isolation booths for guitar amps and possible vocals. I would like to build a farely large control room so that I can have a couch and room for an extra TV for video games etc. This control room will also serve as my personal "hang out" spot, so I would like the area to be as comfortable as possible even when I'm not recording. I have also been asked by the boss (wife) if I can keep the "closet" and "cold storage" area, I have said I will try, but no gaurauntees. I am not ruling out relocating both of these. I will need a closet/storage area for various recording and non recording equipment. So I am having a complete brain lapse on where to put anything in this space. I don't expect to not do any work on this layout but I'm hitting a brick wall here, I have researched many plans on this site, GS, and HR, but I haven't been able to find a floor plan that would fit into my existing footprint. I'm just hoping someone can give me some suggestions as far as layout. I hope I have given enough detail in this initial post to create a decent "design" thread that will continue on to a construction thread that will hopefully prove to help myself and others. I come to the forum frequently, so if there are any questions please ask! Josh

More pics

No replies yet. I'm not surpreised I left a pretty open question :) Let me attempt to get the ball rolling with a sample layout. This is for placement only. In this layout one would need to enter the control room through the laundry room and Vocal booth. Which I am realizing nw, kinda sucks! Entering the tracking room from the bottom of the stairs would be ok.

I guess I would be able to get more interested if the demo had been completed. Like those overhead soffits...doesn't read like you think you need them, I would get rid of them. Then most definitely get the paneling off the walls to evaluate the situation behind the paneling. Is there framing that is reusable as is or do I need to demo that as well? Since you mention metal studs, the whole paneled wall needs to come down, right. Get the ceiling demo'ed, it is just in your way. Whatever it is you are wanting to do here, you have to demo this place to some extent in order to get an area that can be built into a well isolated basement. Read on my brother, read on... EDIT: A word of caution! When I use words like demo and extract and tear out walls and ceilings, etc. it is because I am aware of how the structure is put together and what NOT to knock out or down. Your experience may not be as developed. Be careful and hire a professional if in doubt.

Thanks for the first reply! I have already taken a look inside the wall cavity, behind the panelling. And it is fir 2x4 framing with insulation "bags". In the old days, these were in theory used for insulation and vapour barrier. I plan on basically replacing everything. The overhead "soffit" is actually the main heating duct (supply), see the sketchup drawing. The first step in the building proccess is going to be redoing the wall insulation against the wall foundation concrete. I have not fully decided if I'm going to use fiberglass or rigid Celfort. If I use Fiberglass I will of course need to install a vapor barrier. I don't want to do much demo until I get a firm plan in place as I will still be using the space for as long as possible, and I really expect the planning stage to be quite long. I think the best first step is to find the space and areas for all the rooms I need/want and do some sort of layout. Once the plan is in place I will be getting rid of the pannelling and ceiling. I plan on starting from bare concrete and working from there.I may be getting rid of most of the ceiling tiles (nail on 12"x12" accoustic tiles nailed onto furring strip that is fastened to the joists) soon, as I need to run some new wiring and plumbing for the main floor. My father and uncle do this kind of thing daily (commercial steel stud framing, drywall, and taping), I'm mostly an office monkey for them, but I do have quite a bit of field experience. We haven't built a studio yet, but there's a first time for everything. 8) Any layout suggestions would be more than appreciated in this design thread. Thanks! Josh

"And it is fir 2x4 framing with insulation "bags". In the old days, these were in theory used for insulation and vapour barrier. I plan on basically replacing everything. The overhead "soffit" is actually the main heating duct (supply), see the sketchup drawing. The first step in the building proccess is going to be redoing the wall insulation against the wall foundation concrete. I have not fully decided if I'm going to use fiberglass or rigid Celfort. If I use Fiberglass I will of course need to install a vapor barrier." Actually in the old days it was paper, it's in the "new days" that plastic has emerged. In any event, no mater what insulation you will use, the vapor barrier is most often not something you do or do not do. You install a vapor barrier, period. On the interior side of the build, the last wall that is framed, as an on going rule for existing basements. Celfort is not insulation as it pertains to the interior of an acoustical build. It is a rigid polystrene barrier designed for exterior applications OR as part of a thermal environment. But there are many things that need addressing, like getting the actual footprint of the area which most likely requires all the interior waste to be removed, or you can guess at it :) I recognize that everyone in the world wants a pretty design to coo over and no one wants to get dirty :) Getting dirty is part of my job, so to speak. And the more information you can give to a potential designer, the more accurate a build he or she can design for you. "I would, however, like to do my best to isolate the studio from the rest of the house." This is where you have to open the overhead ceiling area including that existing vent to add mass if at all possible. The vent would have to be reconfigured/redesigned and massed up in order to meet this desire of separation from the house. That said, if the neighbors can hear you and you can hear the neighbors then your band playing louder will only mask the potential for the neighbors, traffic and what have you outside of those above ground windows to be recorded. You may require window plugs for these windows. I'm pretty certain, that or heavier glass. You may find that you can re-route the heating vents to run parallel in the overhead joist bays, gaining you the additional head room. But you have to get dirty :horse: :yahoo:

xSpace wrote:

Actually in the old days it was paper, it's in the "new days" that plastic has emerged. In any event, no mater what insulation you will use, the vapor barrier is most often not something you do or do not do.

Sorry, that is what I meant, in the "old days" it was paper and now we are using approved polyethelene film for vapour barrier, it must be stamped. I apologies if I mis-spoke about the Cel-fort product. The way I understood it from my R2000 course and the Owens Corning website was that if I were to use a Cel-Lok system an actual vapour barrier film is not needed as the Cel-Lok is moisture resistant, as long as the joints are sealed (probably with Tuck-Tape). in fact they mention adding drywall directly to the Cel-Lok. This is not the traditional way to do things, so I suspect we will be sticking to steel studs/fiberglass/vapour barrier for the perimeter insulation only.

xSpace wrote:

You install a vapor barrier, period. On the interior side of the build, the last wall that is framed, as an on going rule for existing basements. Celfort is not insulation as it pertains to the interior of an acoustical build. It is a rigid polystrene barrier designed for exterior applications OR as part of a thermal environment.

Absolutely agreed on the need for vapour barrier, we are very picky here on maintaning the building envelope, however, there are Owens Corning extruded products that are suggested for interior use.

xSpace wrote:

But there are many things that need addressing, like getting the actual footprint of the area which most likely requires all the interior waste to be removed, or you can guess at it :)

I do know that the exterior walls are 4" (I don't think they are 3 1/2", but I will check when I get home.

xSpace wrote:

I recognize that everyone in the world wants a pretty design to coo over and no one wants to get dirty :) Getting dirty is part of my job, so to speak. And the more information you can give to a potential designer, the more accurate a build he or she can design for you.

Yes, this is true. However, I'm not sure how much more detail is needed. I guess I will start over.

xSpace wrote:

This is where you have to open the overhead ceiling area including that existing vent to add mass if at all possible. The vent would have to be reconfigured/redesigned and massed up in order to meet this desire of separation from the house. That said, if the neighbors can hear you and you can hear the neighbors then your band playing louder will only mask the potential for the neighbors, traffic and what have you outside of those above ground windows to be recorded. You may require window plugs for these windows. I'm pretty certain, that or heavier glass.

Yes, I suspect I will need/want some sort of window plugs. I can't actually hear the neighbors or the busy street when I am in the basement. I only put that info here as most starting threads are something along the lines of "...my neighbors are complaining, I need to soundproof my basement, how do I do this..." I just wanted to stress that I do not expect a "soundproof" space, and I am looking for a decent accoustic space to record mine and friends bands. You may find that you can re-route the heating vents to run parallel in the overhead joist bays, gaining you the additional head room.

xSpace wrote:

But you have to get dirty :horse: :yahoo:

Don't mind getting dirty :yahoo: I tried to make my post as detailed as possible :cry: Thanks for the time and detailed responses. Sorry for the need to beat the dead horse! :lol: Josh

Don't mind me, since I do not design I enjoy tearing things apart :0

haha! :lol: me too!! I just don't want to spend the next month(s) of design time staring at concrete walls and freezing my ass off! It's going to be winter in Alberta soon :cry: