Belly Acres Farm studio

Greetings - What a great forum! John Sayers drawings and advice are amazing. Very clear and easy to understand and visualize. The information that all of the other experts provide is invaluable. I have been lurking for awhile and this is my first post. I sincerely hope that folks will find my project interesting enough to provide input. The amount of information available is overwhelming, but perhaps I can avoid some mistakes with others help. In order to not be immediately rejected I will try to address some of the requirements for new posts. Valid effort here so please let me know if I missed anything pertinent. My goal is to design and build a 2 story detached building on my property that will serve as garage space on the first level and as a rehearsal and recording studio on the second level. Quiet rural setting, my house will be about 50 feet away. Closest neighbor is about 460 feet away. Music to be played and recorded is mostly rock up to 103 dB. I don't think I will have to go as crazy as some folks with reducing incoming and outgoing sound transmission, but I certainly don't want to design a giant resonator that increases problems. In this reasonably quiet setting, I am amazed at how far sound can travel. Sometimes I can hear cows from other neighbors farms that are over 1/2 mile away, people talking (shouting?) outside who are 1/3 mile away, and on occasion I can hear a train horn that is 8 miles away. The building will have a 'gambrel' (barn style) roofline to fit in with the rural setting. Footprint of 32' x 40'. The upstairs studio space however will be less because of the gamrel roof. The usable space upstairs should be about 21' x 40', and will have interior ceiling heights as shown in the attached pic. I figure that the leftover triangular space can be made into ductwork with kneewalls, or cable runs, or bass traps or ?? The space will eventually be divided roughly 50% as live room/rehearsal space with a smaller iso room, and the other 50% will be control room and the entry staircase area. The actual interior design will come later, but I think I will have a big enough open space to work within. The live room goal is to be able to track a full 4-5 piece rock band at once, and I would like the control room to have enough space for clients to be comfortable, and to be able to do some overdubs from the control room. Smaller iso room would just be for vocals, or guitar amps. The help I seek at this stage is advice on the physical construction methods for the building. After garnering advice here, I plan to submit construction drawings for permiting within the next 6 weeks, and hopefully have the building framed up and weathertight within 1 year. The interior design and fit out of the studio will be next, and very well may be a 5 year project. Plans so far - 32'x40' perimeter foundation, slab for garage floor. Standard framing for lower level (garage portion). 3 single bay garage doors, one exterior people door. Windows in the garage doors for natural light but few if any other windows on the first level. I do not plan to insulate the garage walls, but obviously will need to insulate (thermally and acoustically) the ceiling of the garage (floor of the studio). I can be swayed to insulate and sheetrock in the garage if you think I will have sound transmission problems. Upstairs will have two 4'x4' windows for emergency egress. Second floor studio level will be built with trusses that will act as the walls and the roof. See this link for an example of a building built with these style trusses. My interior size will be a bit bigger, but will not have the dormers. http://www.barnplans.com/showcase/main.cgi?month=nov07 Because of the interesting interior ceiling lines, I would like to use some of the ceiling/walls as the studio walls if I can. I know that in some places I will need to build double walls, but if I can construct the first layer of walls sufficiently perhaps I can use them? The depth of the trusses should give me a good bit of space for insulation. Looks like over a foot. The whole building will be OSB sheathed, and the roof and the siding will be metal (you see it commonly on industrial and agricultural buildings in this area. Budget is about 50K, but that isn't intended to outfit or finish off the inside of the studio. That amount is to build the weather tight building, do a driveway and landscaping. If there is money left, next would be HVAC and then the studio interior construction. Specific questions: Is the garage below going to be a giant resonator sound transmitter? Advice on methods of wall/roof construction for my situation? Is the crazy roofline that this style roof will create even a good idea? (I figured it would give good interior volume) Thanks so much in advance for any help. Future posts will be shorter, I promise! Thanks, Darren

Hi Darren, That looks like a fun project. I agree with your thinking about creating as much open space as possible, makes for better sounding rooms. Is this going to be a commercial facility? How high a priority is having great sounding, isolated rooms? Do a search about other people who have done this style of build. If it was me, and I absolutely had to build on an upper floor, I would be thinking about a commercial style floor system. By this I mean owsj, qdeck, cement. But, I think this is overkill for what you want. You will still need a heavy, overbuilt, floor system just to support all the drywall going on top of it. What I'm getting at here is you're going to have to involve a structural engineer. The first question an engineer will want answered is how much load is actually going on this floor? So you're going to have to figure out your studio design to have an answer. Again, if it was me, I would plan for complete isolation. Room inside room, 2 layers of drywall on walls and ceiling plus remember all your equipment etc. This does not mean you have to build it this heavy, but at least the option is there. The heavier you build your floor, the less it will act as a drum, at least until you reach the resonant freq. Have a read on flanking while your researching. So, overbuild for the heaviest construction you would ever consider, make the floor as heavy and rigid as possible, then test and see what you actually need. If you want good separation between your live room and your control room you will need room within room constr., and multiple layers of drywall, you will also need a heavy, rigid floor. Some things to think about. Steve

Thanks for the reply Steve. Your project looks interesting, and similar in some respects. I look forward to following its progress.

Cold wrote:

Is this going to be a commercial facility? How high a priority is having great sounding, isolated rooms? Steve

It isn't going to be commercial in the sense that I don't have any misconceptions about making money with it, just dumping money in. Kind of like my wife's personal petting zoo that I live amongst... I wouldn't mind occasionally having some paying clients, but mostly it will be used for my own endeavors. I still want great sounding rooms! I would like the control room to be well isolated from the tracking room, but I don't think I need to be as isolated from the outside world as much as some other peoples studios need to be.

Cold wrote:

Do a search about other people who have done this style of build. Steve

I had already searched here for 'gambrel' and 'barn' studios to try and find similar projects, but nothing really jumped out at me. If you or anyone else can point out a specific similar project to check out I would be appreciative. I originally was looking for similar projects because with the gambrel roof, my side walls are actually roof. (the walls are slanted and ceiling is vaulted). I was hoping this could help with avoiding the parallel wall problems. Anyone with insight on this? I have some floor plans floating around in my head, but I just started working with sketch up. It may take me a little while. I was hoping to put that part off while I worked on the construction drawings for the building. I kind of figured if I left myself this giant open space on the second floor I could put whatever I designed in there later. I see the point about needing to know what is going up there in order to make sure the floor will hold it. I am really trying now to figure out the best way to construct/frame the building - the floor, roof and walls so that when I eventually get to putting in the studio in, I have given myself a head start (and hopefully no headaches). An example would be - NOW is the time to put extra layers of plywood on the roof BEFORE the roofing goes on. Or maybe sheathing, then a layer of board insulation and then the plywood then the metal roofing. Whatever, the point is try to figure it out now rather than saying I wish I had done this... That is why I am reaching out to you guys who have done this before. Please tell me what you know. I ordered Rod's book, and I am looking forward to finding lots of info in one place. I am getting dizzy trying to find it sprinkled everywhere on this forum!! Thanks again, Darren

"I am getting dizzy trying to find it sprinkled everywhere on this forum!!" The link in my sig has organized information on this very subject by the forum developer, John Sayers.

xSpace wrote:

"I am getting dizzy trying to find it sprinkled everywhere on this forum!!" The link in my sig has organized information on this very subject by the forum developer, John Sayers.

Thanks xSpace. I had already previously devoured that, and gone back to reference it a number of times. At this point I was seeking interaction. Here are two specific questions regarding the slab/foundation that I hope you and others have opinions on: quick recap of info pertinent to these questions - 2 story building yet to be constructed, studio on second floor, garage and shop on 1st floor for vehicle and tool storage. Isolation to the garage below is not necessary, but I am seeking a reduction in sound transmission outside of the structure. I know the answers if the studio was going to be on the slab. 1) Regarding transmitting sound outside of the building, Is it better to: a) pour separate footers, have a block foundation wall and pour slab inside? or b) Have a monolithic pour and have footers and slab essentially connected? 2) For the floor structure of the studio, Is it better to: a) Have the floor joists free span and rest only on the perimeter walls? or b) Have shorter joists and hang them from beams that are supported by posts that are resting on the slab? Thanks for any input. Darren

zone wrote:

It isn't going to be commercial in the sense that I don't have any misconceptions about making money with it, just dumping money in.

I understand and am a compatriot in this regard. Built for love not money. Now on to your questions. It would be a whole lot easier if you don't have to build a free span. Here is a thought, though it may be impractical- Separate your slab from the footings and foundation walls. Build separate footings inside your slab and use columns to suport your second floor, keeping it free standing from your outside walls. Make the floor as heavy as possible to limit flanking between control room and live room (this is going to be a limiting factor in your build). The more columns you use, the heavier you can build your second floor and it's associated load. Yes this does couple your first floor slab to the second floor..... you could also isolate your column footings from the slab to limit this as well. This may be more work than you want to do but it would certainly limit the flanking, which is going to be your biggest isolation factor in this build. Food for thought anyway Steve p.s. do a search for second floor garage builds, I've seen a bunch on here

zone wrote:

2 story building yet to be constructed, studio on second floor, garage and shop on 1st floor for vehicle and tool storage.

Darren, If your going to construct a wooden framed two story barn and install the recording studio part upstairs, I do not see how pouring the footer, then the interior of the slab would make any difference. It would just be more work with little return. The biggest issue will be the structure flanking. The path of least resistance. I would especially wonder about that almost circular roof, with round aspects of ceiling known to focus sound. It, if it were me, would have to be broken up with knee walls minimum. Which adds more flanking :) I think you have to ask yourself one clear question. Do I want a barn or do I want a recording studio? And if the recording studio takes precedence, then maybe sliming down of the garage, broaden of the building footprint, there are a lot of ways this can still go, if your not dead set on this barn type structure. If you are...well, there's your answer as well. You'll have to live with what this type of structure gives you in the way of flanking, less isolation due to the shear mass required in an elevated structure, and more work because the build is off the ground which means transportation of materials just got harder. And HVAC... Good luck