Alex studio build - design phase part 1.

Hello everyone and thank you for giving my thread some attention. This is the second time around for me building a studio. Last time I got some great help from you all - Stuart in particular. That studio build was eventually a success of sorts, after battling through all the unforseen problems that do occur when doing what we all love to do. After lots of hard work, some frustration and unbelievable amounts of caulk it was finally done. This time - however - I will take my good time designing and planning for the build. Where I live - in Sweden, just outside of Stockholm - you need permission from the local politicians to build almost everything and in my particular area authorities have just started rebuilding watersystems and all of the roads. This means that all grants for building will be postponed for a minimum of two years. That will give me/us some time to really make this design as good as can be. When I finally get to build this thing there are some fundamental things I should say before going into specifics; 1. The studio will be constructed from scratch, i.e the whole building will be new and built for this sole purpose. I will use contractors, carpenters alongside myself, you guys and a swedish acoustician and studiobuilder to perfect the design. 2. The building will be built at the same time as we will rebuild our main house, don't know if that is of any importance but I figured there will be alot of manpower and supplies which is good. 3. Again, in my area, politicians are pretty restrictive when it comes to building, that means that secondary buildings, like this and garages, guesthouses etc. are restricted to a certain size. In this case I believe that I have to stick to 30m2 in "build-area". That basically means that the slab can be 30m2 at most. 1) Where am I? On my own property, a couple of miles from Stockholm, Sweden. The main house (where we live) is placed about 30 metres from the guest house (where the studio probably will be) and the closest neighbouring house is also about 30 metres from where I will be building. Other neighbours have more than twice that distance from the guest house. The surrounding environment is your basic garden-type milieu; soil, grass, trees, and bushes of various kind. The ground is earth and soil and the occasional rock. About 12-15 metres from the guest house is a road which is very quiet and the traffic of both people and vehicles is at a minimum. Pretty much a calm, quiet neighbourhood of small wooden houses. Our property is about 2000 square metres which is the size most of our neighbours have. All in all it's a quiet neighbourhood in a forest-like environment. Calming, soothing and perfect for creating music, basically. 2)What am I attempting to do? My goal is simple; a good sounding studio for producing my own and other peoples music. I know that 30m2 is small - real small - but I still want to make the most of it, soundwise and comfortwise. I'd like the control room to be as linear as possible and the live room to be welcoming, comfortable for one or a couple of musicians as well as good sounding, not too dead, not too live. I'd like the "feel" of the studio to be pro, even if it's small. I do not want the "home-studio"-feel so to speak. I want to be able to play and record at any time of day/night and I want to be able to play LOUD. 3) What phase am I in? Well, obviously this is early. So this can only be considered the design phase. I am at least two years from the actual build, but as someone, somewhere, sometime said; "a good studiobuild is 90% design and 10% constructing" or something like that. So I am ready to take the time to really perfect the design. 4) How loud am I? Hard to say but let me say it this way, I do not want any restrictions when it comes to how loud I want to be. I want to be able to play drums at 3 o clock in the morning, so to speak. 5) What do I record? Every style of music basically but mostly alternative rock and pop. Occasionally I will be mixing dance music and such. Live drums, guitars, vocals, bass, strings, brass, keyboards. Everything I can get my hands on, I will record. 6) Budget? 10-15.000 USD. That should cover the cost of the entire building. What do I have to work with? Well, anything goes. As mentioned; the only restriction is "constructing area". That is the total area of the building, not the size or area of the rooms. Everything else is up for debate. Concrete? Brick walls? Inside out walls? Floating floors? High ceiling? Ceiling windows? Wood framing? Every idea is welcomed, don't hesitate to get creative. 7) Time? The building, studio and everything else should be finished late 2011. 8) Pictures and Sketchup. Attached is a couple of pics of where I would like to place the building and on these pic you can kind of see how far away our neighbours are. The sketchup file is my first suggestion and is basically two MAM rooms with sliding doors, outer leaf consisting of a brick wall, inner leaf of wood framing with 95mm rock wool, 3 layers of plaster. Bear in mind that this is the first and far from final idea. You think you got a better one, bring it on! 9) What help do I need? Well, anything and everything I can get. I've read most of the threads and I've got some insight when it comes to building these things, but still I'm nowhere near some of you guys when it comes to the engineering and math as well as creativity. I'd like to get some fresh ideas and some pointers, how would you do it? Would you consider more than two rooms? Bigger CR? Bigger LR? Inside out? No windows? No sliding doors? Cables and wiring through the concrete slab? What kind of HVAC? Acoustic treatment? Floating floor? So anyway; if I've forgotten anything don't be afraid to ask or point it out with the appropriate amount of sarcasm. Thank you for any and all help you might be able to give. // Alexander. Stockholm, SWEDEN, 20090822

Hey guys... Just checking in. Just got my first child, a boy, a week ago. What an experience. Wow. Hope someone breaks the ice. If you've got any questions or suggestions, dont be afraid to ask. Thanks, Alex.

Hai Alex, congrats with yer newborn! Now, you think you're ever gonna build that studio (as in: you REALLY think you've got ANY sparetime left from now on?) haha A kid sucks up all your free time.. and it's worth it! Being a dad rocks :) About your plans; haven't read your intro to the letter but I am sure you're gonna end-up with a design that works for you. Just make your plan and post it here to discuss. good luck!

Hi Ro, Yeah, what a wird and beatiful thing it is, parenting. We'll see about the time consumption though, it's been done before! The plan (if you are referring to the sketchup drawing) is posted. Did you miss it? :? // Alex

ah, yeah I missed it cuz I don't usually download them sketched. Just export it to a .jpg next time and post it here, much easier. If your gonna divide the shed into 2 rooms I'd sudgest using angled walls. If there's room enough, seems like a small place tho. You have any specific questions? Looks like yer doing fine :)

Ro, hombre... Not too keen on reading, eh? The studio will be built from skratch, so th entire building will be new. The shed is going to be demolished. I wrote this in the presentation. Anyways, here is some pics from my sketchup model.

Not too keen on reading, eh?

But I always thought that Ro just LOVES to read long, detailed posts! You mean I was wrong about that? :)

Neh, I skip righ to the questions normally :mrgreen: words... huhu. Ah, a clean build. perfect!

Stuart, Nice to hear from you. Any general feelings regarding this plan?

Hello all, After taking Johns suggestion of looking into the "Small Studio in 3D" design, I have come to realize that it kind of satisfies all of my criterias. I've been playing around with the design a bit and right now I'm thinking about making the live room a bit bigger. Maybe this is useless, since the room is stil going to be kind of small. Would you increase the size of the controlroom instead? I would ike to utilize the most of the squaremeters I have to work with, which is 30m2. Anyway, some fundamental questions about the whole inside out concept and Johns particular design: 1. My shool of thought when it comes to STC, is that you have to have a room within a room decoupled from the outside walls and ceiling, but Johns design seems to have the frames against the outer walls. Maybe someone can explain this or post a link or something. 2. Alot of threads here and elsewhere suggests that the CR should be symmetrical, whereas the LR should have no parralel walls. In this design, one of the walls is heavily slanted in both rooms. Will this affect, and more importantly decrease the quality of linearity and stereo imaging when it comes to mixing? 3. In the inside out design, should there not be GB on the side of the frame facing the outside walls? 4. What is the best outer wall material, is it bricks, and if so should they be treated in any particular fashion? Like GB? Thank you for any and all replies. // Alex.

Nobody? Really?

1. My shool of thought when it comes to STC, is that you have to have a room within a room decoupled from the outside walls and ceiling, but Johns design seems to have the frames against the outer walls. Maybe someone can explain this or post a link or something. 2. Alot of threads here and elsewhere suggests that the CR should be symmetrical, whereas the LR should have no parralel walls. In this design, one of the walls is heavily slanted in both rooms. Will this affect, and more importantly decrease the quality of linearity and stereo imaging when it comes to mixing? 3. In the inside out design, should there not be GB on the side of the frame facing the outside walls? 4. What is the best outer wall material, is it bricks, and if so should they be treated in any particular fashion? Like GB?

:roll: Have I offended ya'll? John? Xspace? Stuart? André? Anybody? SERENITY NOW! errrhm... bump?

I don't think your meant to yell it! Perfect- go with it. Then donate some money to John :mrgreen:

1. My shool of thought when it comes to STC, is that you have to have a room within a room decoupled from the outside walls and ceiling, but Johns design seems to have the frames against the outer walls. Maybe someone can explain this or post a link or something.

In the case of this design isolation wasn't a design requirement. If you want to increase the isolation you must built the frames within an outer frame.

2. Alot of threads here and elsewhere suggests that the CR should be symmetrical, whereas the LR should have no parralel walls. In this design, one of the walls is heavily slanted in both rooms. Will this affect, and more importantly decrease the quality of linearity and stereo imaging when it comes to mixing?

Symetrical for the front up to level with the listening position - after that it's not important.

3. In the inside out design, should there not be GB on the side of the frame facing the outside walls?

yes.

4. What is the best outer wall material, is it bricks, and if so should they be treated in any particular fashion? Like GB?

that's a very wide question - there are various outer wall materials that would be suitable - budget is the normal determinant.

I don't think your meant to yell it! Perfect- go with it. Then donate some money to John :mrgreen:

Sorry to get all Costanza on you guys... I will donate, thats for sure, when the studio is finished. Hows things on your build, Lillith?

John, thanks for your input!

In the case of this design isolation wasn't a design requirement. If you want to increase the isolation you must built the frames within an outer frame.

I see, so this modification of Scotts studio, do you think it would be sufficient in STC?

Symetrical for the front up to level with the listening position - after that it's not important.

Ok!

yes.

As in "there should be GB"?

that's a very wide question - there are various outer wall materials that would be suitable - budget is the normal determinant

Ok, I guess my question would be; what would better? Solid brick wall (untreated) or something similar to the inner wall (like framing with GB and so on)? Thank you very much, John. Sorry to be a pain in the behind, I just want to get it right! Heres the latest mod to the Taylored Sound Studio // Alex

Solid brickwall all the way

Solid brickwall all the way

Thats what I thought. Thanks, Javier. Do you know if the brick wall should be treated in any particular fashion, and how deep the bricks should be?

15 cm bricks should do it. And hopefully rendered both sides