Ducted heating and cooling... I have a real problem...!!!

Hi Guys, The air con designers are having problem with my studio....!!! They want to put in return air ducts in each iso as at times the doors will be shut on some occasions. They state that if I don't have the return air duct installed the lack of air flowing back to the unit will unbalance of the system, and I'm sure there right. The extra duct work and fittings and the completed installation is going to cost $7,000 dollars, which is pretty prohibitive. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated...!!! Mike

I'm afraid they are correct - also if you don't have a return duct the input duct won't work as it's pushing up against the room air pressure. Can't you do the work yourself?

I spent like $100 bucks for air ventilation (NOTE: no AC, just air in.. air out) All you need is some good ducts, and two air fans or extractors, the ones you see sometimes in bathrooms (but with the amount of air required for your space)

John Sayers wrote:

I'm afraid they are correct - also if you don't have a return duct the input duct won't work as it's pushing up against the room air pressure. Can't you do the work yourself?

Hi John, Thanks for the reply mate. Yes, I can probably do most of the duct work myself if not all, I'm just not confident. If she was all wood, I'd have no problem...!!! So to recap, for the system to work to it's optimum, I need to have the return air ducts coming back from the Vocal iso, hooking up with the Drum iso, hooking up with the main studio, then into the C/R which will house the largest 350m/m trunking. Then finally through the C/R walls back into the return of the fan unit? Mike

jbassino wrote:

I spent like $100 bucks for air ventilation (NOTE: no AC, just air in.. air out) All you need is some good ducts, and two air fans or extractors, the ones you see sometimes in bathrooms (but with the amount of air required for your space)

Hi mate, Thanks for your advice, however, the fan unit and compressor I have bought are 14.9kw capacity and have been designed for a space which is approximately 154 cubic metre. So unfortunately, although your fan idea is another option, the fan unit has already been supplied. thanks Mike

Yeah, well for small places like mine that option works good I guess the most expensive thing is the instalation of your ducts so I you might do that yourself and then hire a technician to check out that everything works correctly and the amount of air, etc is flowing right

jbassino wrote:

Yeah, well for small places like mine that option works good I guess the most expensive thing is the instalation of your ducts so I you might do that yourself and then hire a technician to check out that everything works correctly and the amount of air, etc is flowing right

Hi mate, Actually the most expensive stuff is all the ducts and materials, and sheet metal boxes, but I understand what your saying. The installation if done by a air con tech, is cheaper than the materials, But that's life eh....!!! all the best Mike

Hey Ratty, Can you forget the Iso's and just do the main rooms? No in or out so the pressure is not affected. Singers don't like hanging in a small space for long any way. Just open the doors between takes

lilith_envy wrote:

Hey Ratty, Can you forget the Iso's and just do the main rooms? No in or out so the pressure is not affected. Singers don't like hanging in a small space for long any way. Just open the doors between takes

Thanks mate, thanks for getting in touch. Leaving out the extra two ISO's will make a little difference I,m sure, both in cost of materials and labour. However, in terms of the design for my studio, if and all the rooms are air tight and I have the doors are only shut for a few minutes, the whole system will be unbalanced and they cannot guarantee it will work efficiently. In fact they have advised that, the system will be unbalanced in terms of air in and out and this could effect the compressor. However, even if a breakdown doesn't happen, I don't think I can take the chance. Once the 32 m/m plaster is in the roof, I can't go back....!!! I'd be stuffed. As Kendal says, ahh all the decision are yours....lol Now I know that it could be a "con" from the air "con" guys,(sorry about the pun), but I sincerely don't think so. What they say makes sense, and I have to admit, John S also agrees. I know it's a pain, but after the last few days, I think it's better to follow their advice on this occasion. Thanks for input, I really appreciate it...!!! Sincerely Mike

Ratty_7 wrote:

John Sayers wrote:

I'm afraid they are correct - also if you don't have a return duct the input duct won't work as it's pushing up against the room air pressure. Can't you do the work yourself?

Hi John, Thanks for the reply mate. Yes, I can probably do most of the duct work myself if not all, I'm just not confident. If she was all wood, I'd have no problem...!!! So to recap, for the system to work to it's optimum, I need to have the return air ducts coming back from the Vocal iso, hooking up with the Drum iso, hooking up with the main studio, then into the C/R which will house the largest 350m/m trunking. Then finally through the C/R walls back into the return of the fan unit? Mike

Yes - that's correct - you may only need to feed the two returns form the iso booths back to the studio as it will already have return ducts I assume. The flexible insulated duct is easy to work with - you just need a good supply of duct tape. :)

John Sayers wrote:

Ratty_7 wrote:

John Sayers wrote:

I'm afraid they are correct - also if you don't have a return duct the input duct won't work as it's pushing up against the room air pressure. Can't you do the work yourself?

Hi John, Thanks for the reply mate. Yes, I can probably do most of the duct work myself if not all, I'm just not confident. If she was all wood, I'd have no problem...!!! So to recap, for the system to work to it's optimum, I need to have the return air ducts coming back from the Vocal iso, hooking up with the Drum iso, hooking up with the main studio, then into the C/R which will house the largest 350m/m trunking. Then finally through the C/R walls back into the return of the fan unit? Mike

Yes - that's correct - you may only need to feed the two returns form the iso booths back to the studio as it will already have return ducts I assume. The flexible insulated duct is easy to work with - you just need a good supply of duct tape. :)

Yes mate, the returns from the vocal and drum ISO are fed into the same returns that feed through the C/R back to the units. It's all one huge return starting at the Vocal iso and ending at the fan unit. Same as the flow in. In other words, one duct complete duct in and one complete duct out....!!! All branching come off main feed in and out in the rooms. Unfortunately, for this design, there is No other way. I wish there was....!!! I think the point of the air pressure being maintained in the whole studio complex, is correct. If I do not do this, there is a danger that the whole system will be unbalanced, and could additional and costly problems. Mike

Thanks mate, thanks for getting in touch.

Hey, Ratty: Lilith ain't a "mate". She's a "sheila"... :)

Soundman2020 wrote:

Thanks mate, thanks for getting in touch.

Hey, Ratty: Lilith ain't a "mate". She's a "sheila"... :)

hehehehe I'm bloody blind mate, I never noticed. Me thinks I better stop, before I get into trouble....LOL

hehehehe I'm bloody blind mate, I never noticed. Me thinks I better stop, before I get into trouble....LOL

Don't worry, I made the same mistake! :oops: ( And she never lets me forget it, either.... ) - Stuart -

Back to your air con woes, Mike: just checking here, but your contractor DOES understand that he has to take special measures to keep sound from leaking between rooms through those ducts, right? He already knows all about multiple 90° bends, long runs, in-line silencers, duct liner on the inside of big ducts (not the outside), etc.., and designed those into your system, right? Those are rather important issues.... (I guess you already took that into account, but it doesn't hurt to remind you again, I hope!) - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Back to your air con woes, Mike: just checking here, but your contractor DOES understand that he has to take special measures to keep sound from leaking between rooms through those ducts, right? He already knows all about multiple 90° bends, long runs, in-line silencers, duct liner on the inside of big ducts (not the outside), etc.., and designed those into your system, right? Those are rather important issues.... (I guess you already took that into account, but it doesn't hurt to remind you again, I hope!) - Stuart -

Hi stuart, Yes, the bleeding through the duct into the rooms has been considered and we are using a special duct which is insulated 70m/m and the special no join inner lining is completely sealed. This inner liners have perforations on the inside, to cut down any air pressure sound. They call it there acoustic duct, amazingly the same price as standard stuff. (I won one...!!!). In terms of the long runs and inline silencers, I understand and have seen some drawings, but am not sure. Any thing you can suggest in terms of these last two points, would be appreciated? Mike

Is compromise part of the solution? Could you install an air grill in the door of the iso booth, allowing air to be forced in thru the duct and out thru the grill to the room that has a return?