Okay, here's the deal. I recently purchased a home with a detached garage. My wife gave me the go-ahead to convert it into my own rehearsal/recording studio. After about 4 months of heavy research (including buying and reading Rod's book) I think I'm finally ready. I start getting ready to draw up and submit a design here when I learn that in my city it is illegal to convert the garage into anything other than parking. I spoke to the planning dept. and was told, very sternly, that converting the garage into a living space, which a studio would amount to, is a very serious offense. So now I'm a little pissed, but resigned. I cannot build a room within a room. Oh well. I am allowed to put up dyrwall and electrical, however. I just can't put a wall in front of the garage door. So my question is: Would hanging the drywall on resilient channel have any effect on the transmission to the outside? I know the sound is going to fly right through the garage door, no helping that. But would the rear and sides of the garage benefit at all? If I can at least lower the level to my rear neighbors I'd like to do that. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Would Resilient Channel Help?
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 13230.
I'm guessing that the standard answer is going to be that all the work you put into resilient channel and extra drywall is going to go right out the window (err...door, that is) without any treatment to the giant hole in the wall (err...door, that is).
I'd imagine that "our" definition of a super-duper garage door is different than that of a garage door salesman, but I wonder if there might be a (feat of structural engineering and quite heavy and expensive) "super garage door" way to tackle the problem - added bulk, rubber gaskets...
...might fall into the "possible but not practical" file, though.
Any chance you can talk the wife and the planning department clerks into building a slab-on-grade 'cottage studio' in the back yard, if you have one - or are you in that part of Souther California where all the houses are stucco-red-tile-roof-attached-garage-and-four-foot-strip-of-"yard"-with-a-wall-around-it and no room to "build out"? :cop:
Well, there would be room if it wasn't for the pool. I do love it though. It'll be gold in the next few months. I kind of figured there was no real advantage to putting up the resilient channel, but I wanted to make sure. As far as a super garage door, I don't know that would work, as the door needs to be able to be opened. I don't know that the railing would support the weight needed to create that much mass. Fortunately a lot of my neighbors play music, so I think I'll be able to get away with just putting up some drywall (the garage is unfinished) and not playing too late. Or at least I hope.I'm guessing that the standard answer is going to be that all the work you put into resilient channel and extra drywall is going to go right out the window (err...door, that is) without any treatment to the giant hole in the wall (err...door, that is). I'd imagine that "our" definition of a super-duper garage door is different than that of a garage door salesman, but I wonder if there might be a (feat of structural engineering and quite heavy and expensive) "super garage door" way to tackle the problem - added bulk, rubber gaskets... ...might fall into the "possible but not practical" file, though. Any chance you can talk the wife and the planning department clerks into building a slab-on-grade 'cottage studio' in the back yard, if you have one - or are you in that part of Souther California where all the houses are stucco-red-tile-roof-attached-garage-and-four-foot-strip-of-"yard"-with-a-wall-around-it and no room to "build out"? :cop:
Someone on another forum mentioned industrial sound blankets. I looked them up and they say they have mass vinyl in them. I've read about mass loaded vinyl here before. I'm assuming this is the same thing. The idea was to hang the curtain in front of the door. Would that do anything? I'm not really sure it would help.
An important part of the mass spring mass procedure is not being used in your model. Insulation, which you need anyway to damp the door, should be considered first, before you install or place any kind of curtain over this boundary.
Not only will it stop the vibration/ringing of the garage door, it helps reduce sound coming from either side plus it's a good idea for the thermal aspect.
This might be one of the few areas that MLV would be a good fit. But cost versus reduction in sound should be considered. There may be other ways to build modular and movable "gobo" type mass loaded partitions that would be just as well suited to this application
Movable gobos huh? I didn't think about that. I assumed since I can't make the room airtight nothing would really help the garage door situation. What would you recommend goes into the gobos? Drywall, insulation? MLV? Would they have to reach to the ceiling? That would be a pretty big gobo.
Gobo was just to get a picture in your mind...it worked;)
Mass is what you are looking for in stopping noise, mass, distance(air), decoupling and insulation are the parts that need to be put together.
Granted your reduction in sound capabilities are reduced with this scenario, but could still be effective.
Making a panel with mass on one side(double sheetrock) and insulation in-between the framing, with the framing/insulation pointed towards the garage door may be an option. With a little ingenuity you could develop a complete movable wall using this type of upright panel.
It definitely got the picture in my head. First thing I did was look up garage doors with mass. I found the triple layer garage door. Steel on one side, 2 inches of insulation, steel on the other side. I figure if I can't close the door off, I can change the door. Hopefully this mass helps. It has to be better than the thin aluminum roll up door I have on there now. I'll let you know how it works.
It's going to do far less then you may be thinking.
Metal tends to transfer vibration very good, and the insulation is often Styrofoam, not much use acoustically as a sound dampener.
edit: a wooden door would be more effective.
I see. I guess I have more thinking to do. Another question. Would building a 3 wall room within a room (leaving the garage door accessible) do anything? Would my neighbors to the rear and 2 sides benefit? I guess what I'm asking is: Is there any way to avoid pissing off all of my neighbors without sealing the garage door? I'm sorry to be a pain, but I really don't want to spend money for nothing. Right now the plan was to change the garage door and add drywall to the existing frame. Would any of that have any effect on what goes out?
What about using a Drywall-Green Glue-Drywall setup? Instead of using RC, putting the Drywall directly on the studs? Would the Green Glue effectively decouple the 2 layers of drywall? Is that a good option for the walls?
I think you mean 4, not 3. Those would be the 3 side walls plus the ceiling. If you don't do the inner-leaf ceiling, then it would not be worthwhile at all. So, re-talking your question as a "3 walls plus ceiling, built as if it was a true MSM system, lots of mass, fully decoupled, large air gap, and well sealed", then I reckon the answer is: Yes and no. It would achieve something, but probably not too much, especially at the low end. Low frequency sound "wraps" around small object, such as walls and houses. The lower the frequency, the more easily it wraps. So your bass, kick and toms will "leak" out through the door, and wrap around to all sides of the house: Higher frequencies are more directional, so they would most likely be less of a problem. But if you combine that idea with Brien's concept of a nice thick, heavy wooden garage door, that you seal into place really well, with is idea of a few movable "gobos" that can then be dragged into place and maybe "temporarily" bolted to each other and also to the side walls and the ceiling, then what you have is a pretty good facsimile of a room within a room. It might just work! Then each time you suspect a nosy neighbor or an inspector might be on the war path, you just unbolt your gobos, and slide them into the corner... Presto! You only have a garage again.... OK, it still wouldn't be legal, most likely, so don't blame it on me if they give you a fine! And it wouldn't be perfect acoustically, either. But I don't see why it wouldn't work pretty well, if you build it carefully...Would building a 3 wall room within a room (leaving the garage door accessible) do anything? Would my neighbors to the rear and 2 sides benefit?
No. That isn't what GG does. It's a visco-elastic polymer that damps certain kinds of acoustic issues between two layers of drywall. It does not decouple. That is not its purpose. The two sheets still act as one, but with a damping layer between. Similar to laminate glass. That is not the same as decoupling.Would the Green Glue effectively decouple the 2 layers of drywall?
Good option for what? You don't say what your numbers are at present, nor what numbers you are trying to achieve. Maybe all that you need is a sheet of cardboard. Maybe what you need is six inches of solid lead plate. Without numbers, it is really hard to say! I thin kyou need to put some real-world numbers to your project, otherwise it is purely a guessing game. If you figure that you need something like STC-40, then it is totally doable. If you figure you need more like STC-70, then all bets are totally off. My US$ 0.02 - S, tuart -Is that a good option for the walls?