Phazinhead home studio

Hi everybody I continue the previous thread ( viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13075 )here for specific questions concerning my home studio: After doing some measure in the room (the first pictures below), I decided to change monitor's support by cement block filled with sand, it will be less sensitive to resonances at low frequencies than the ones I built. The new idea is on the picture below. It is a structure made of 2 cupboards on each side of the room, linked by 2 wood beams, so as to hang the corner bass trap and the clouds. In each cupboard there would have lots of vinyls discs and books, it would act as a kind of diffuser and also to damp a bit mid and high frequencies, moreover it is heavy and would make the cupboard less sensitive to resonate. In the lower part of the left cupboard there would have a soundproof case for the computer, and in the another one a case for storing a synthesizer and some music stuff. Do you think it is a good idea to place this structure so close to the monitors ? No early reflexions problem ? I'm also thinking to put wood slats on the front of some bass traps so as to make them broadband absorber between 100Hz and 200Hz, and to save some highs. On what bass trap would it be better to place those slats ? (I thought to the 2 wall/wall front corner bass traps) Thank you very much for your advice !

Hi there, currently doing a build myself in a small room (sprig studio build) I really like this idea for shelving unit to hang clouds its just great, i probably am going to hijack it in someway shape or form, keep up the good work! ites donal

Hi Donal Thank you very much for the comment, you are welcom to bring your ideas and your modifications ! I posted the idea here to have advice from experimented people. This system would be the most convenient for me because of the small space in the room and the fact that I can't drill any hole in the walls, but I don't know if it is the best solution for acoustics, especially with early reflexions problems.. let's speak experimented people here if they see any problem with this design !

Great Idea...... Those smaller control rooms need "ALL" the Trapping they can possibly get so storage & Trapping adds up to 9/10 for me. I would be inclined to leave out the slats though (Sorry haven't read your whole thread) though smaller rooms need less diffusion/reflection from wood, you'll get that from the storage in wood. Well that would be my guesstimate. Best of luck. ADDAhttp://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/p ... 3&t=13226#

Hi ADDA ! thanks for your comment ! I hope this would not produce to much early reflexions and then comb filtering problem at the listening spot. Here is a new idea, for all the audio gear.. to let them in the current rack like on the picture (an old one)

The thing I might be worried about is the width here, you don't want to end up in a situation where your speaker situation is not shooting long at 60 to 90 degrees and is thus mix position is totally compromised, as you want all the stereo width you can get. Box your self in and that could be a problem, as long as those racks are in the absolute width of the room with the equipment racked you might get away with it, if you could soffit the rack IN the walls you would be doing much better. You want a decent speaker splay or it's not worth while to muck that imaging up, the room seems to have min width as it is...... don't ruin that width. This might take some more thought, and another look, it's 7-am here and I've been working all night so I'm a bit fuzzy in the old ears & brain ..... let me review this and see if we have a consensus. we certainly do not want you doing anything that can not be undone, or expanding wasted energy. Might need to play with design here a touch - check in tomorrow. Best ADDA

Great stuff, I had a feeling somewhat that it would need to be soffited into the wall in someway all right. It probably wont suit my space at all as my speaker position is already proper narrow. I will however be keeping a firm eye on this post to see what the experts think, Phazinhead if it does work you could have just invented something very very cool for the small studio folk around here. more of this type of thing :yahoo: ites Donal

:) Thank you very much Donal ! .. we are all wainting for the expert.. John, Ethan, Ro, Soundman and the others .. your advice are welcomed !!! :shot:

okay, I'll bite :)

Phazinhead wrote:

After doing some measure in the room (the first pictures below), I decided to change monitor's support by cement block filled with sand, it will be less sensitive to resonances at low frequencies than the ones I built.

very good idea!

The new idea is on the picture below. It is a structure made of 2 cupboards on each side of the room, linked by 2 wood beams, so as to hang the corner bass trap and the clouds. In each cupboard there would have lots of vinyls discs and books, it would act as a kind of diffuser and also to damp a bit mid and high frequencies, moreover it is heavy and would make the cupboard less sensitive to resonate. In the lower part of the left cupboard there would have a soundproof case for the computer, and in the another one a case for storing a synthesizer and some music stuff.

Small rooms don't need diffusors. And no, books and disc don't make a *real* diffusor, more like a deflector.

Do you think it is a good idea to place this structure so close to the monitors ? No early reflexions problem ?

Yes, I think it's gonna be a problem. Check your first reflections. add wool on the cabinets if you want. Or move it to the back of the room. (or remove it as a whole)

I'm also thinking to put wood slats on the front of some bass traps so as to make them broadband absorber between 100Hz and 200Hz, and to save some highs.

Just use thick wool to extend the lower absorption. 100Hz isn't THAT low. aim for lower. Sure, slats will reflect highs and therefor work as a lowendfilter. Very good. And it looks cool too. Make the wood and gaps variating in width to make it more "broadband", else you'll end up with a "tuned" (spec. frq) device. Unless you're aiming for that. But prolly that's not the case.

On what bass trap would it be better to place those slats ? (I thought to the 2 wall/wall front corner bass traps)

On every BASS trap. Unless you want universal broadband trapping (all freq.) I'd remove as much as possible from your room and start with acoustically dressing up your room. Get a good sounding room. Than add cabins as you will. Use basstraps in any corner. Add broadband behind monitors adn on first reflection points (including your ceiling). Add a basstrap, if possible, at the opposite wall of the monitors (the backwall). standard approach, but a good one.

Hi Ro! Thank you very much for those very interesting comments !! I didn't really know what was the best approach to do a good job... So, if the structure can makes reflexion problems, let's imagine something new, I'm going to draw the new idea on sketchup and post it here today or tomorrow :)

So, after reading some other threads about broadband absorber I drawn what you can see on the picture. However I have a question concerning broadband absorbers: On absorber made of a panel filled with wool and wood slats on the front, it is usually specified to place slats with different width and different spaces between slats. But sometimes it is also specified to make an angle between the front and the rear of the panel, so as to make it broadband If the slats are already made to adsorb a range of frequencies, is it necessary to have in addition an angle between front and rear of the panel ? If I build a panel without any angle, just with different size front slats, would it be sufficient ? (it would make a panel easier,faster and cheaper to build) thank you very much for the advice !

That looks more like it, it's a good start. Now, about the broadband absorbers. you don't want them slatted. Just put plain cloth in front so it will absorb over the whole (well not very low) frequency band. The basstraps, however, do need a low-end filter like slats, hardwood, plastic whatever. have you checked this sticky? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10304 Basstraps need to be thick, the more volume in wool, the better low end trapping. broadband can do with 5cm (2"). Slanting them won't matter. Having those spaced from the wall a bit will.

Hi Ro ! okay I think I made a mistake when using the term "broadband". In fact, the panels with slats would be there to absorb frequecies from 100 to 200Hz approx. Look at the spectrum graph in the first post of this thread, you'll see many peaks and nulls from 90 to 200 Hz , with sometimes 30dB difference peak to null !

Sure, but you'll need broadband (full spectrum) anyway. and those will absorb low end too (how low depends on the thickness)

mmm okay, so I made again a mistake.. I mean by a limited band absorber a kind of tuned panel, with a 100Hz wide frequency range. I understand now that simple panel filled with wool are considered as broadband, but oftenly called "bass trap" .. (Am I right ?) So, the questions about this tuned panel is : what is the most efficient solution between tuned with slats compared to panels with a front panel drilled with holes? thanks you !

Yes, wool is considered broadband. Adding a filter in front (slats for example) makes it less broadband. A helmholz Resonating Device can is a slotted absorber which can be, fairly, tuned. Just like presure panels. Check Ethan's site for those!

Hi Ro ! I didn't found info about tuned slats panel on Ethan site.. I tried to "simulate" a narrow band tuned panel with slats, by using the tools given here (the one on the middle of the page for calculating slat resonnator) : file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/utilisateur/Mes%20documents/Projets%20perso/correction%20acoustique/Dessins,%20plans%20et%20documentation/Helmholtzabsorber.asp.htm I tried to adjust each gap width so as to absord the 65Hz - 400Hz frequency band, in accordance with the wood slats I already have. it give what you can see on the picture. The lower frequency correspond to the 170mm wide slats with 5mm gap on the bigest side, and the higher frequency correspond to the 100m wide slats with 5 mm gap and on the smallest side. I'm not shure that 1mm gaps makes really sens and that my method is correct.. what do you think about that ?

Check www.ethanwiner.com, there you'll find this:

(hope Ethan won't mind posting it here?!) Those are, sorta tunable, bass trapping devices. The link to his document(s): http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html

Thank you very much Ro !! I'm building all those stuff, I'll post some pictures very soon in the next weeks.

great :) Take notice of the first trap in the picture above, that's the "low-end" trap (or pressure trap) I talked about earlier.

Hi everybody ! This week-end I finished the 3 panels of the rear wall, 150mm deep of 50Kg/m3 of wool, 135 cm hight and 60 cm wide. It's amazing how the room sound good now, just with those 3 panels and the 2 in the front corners ! however I feel it needs more absorbtion on the aera close to the monitors, and it needs a cloud too. I think I'll put wood slats on the 2 panels located on the sides walls, then ones in the front corner and maybe on the ones on the front wall too, because it sound just dead as it should be now. I'm pretty happy with the results with so "few" things. I would like to share another good things I just bought (I hope you'll forgive me to make such advertisement on the forum lol): I replaced my Auralex Mo'pads foam, which were supposed to isolate the monitors supports from vibrations, but not enough with loud bass frequencies. So I bought on ebay those sorbothane absorbers (http://cgi.ebay.fr/Flatfeet-Ultra-Sorbo ... 1|294%3A50). It's £10, and believe me, the monitors sounds CRAZY now !! It's absolutly amazing, the sound has now dynamics and low frequencies are like "full", consistent, I can hear clearly what are really low frequencies. I must say that I put those absorber before placing the rear wall panels :wink: Now the support don't vibrate at all, even with heavy sub bass at the maximum the monitors can produce before distortion (8' woofer) :lol: . it's so good that bought 3 other packs of 4 absorber to isolate the vinyl player, the computer and the other pair of monitors. It's the best and cheapest thing I've ever bought, I hope that those who will buy it will be as enjoyed as me !

(Ro, Now I understand what you were talking about re: PM:) Phazi - Can not really read your last post, though for your room I would go "Super-Chunking" behind those Traps and radiate those Bass Freq's into the corner of the room (More so for Rap/Bass Heavy). John gave you a great suggest from 20 years ago - Learn from these guys, their "Posts are Free & F*cken gold"! Great Work Phazi so far & keep going, it will happen! Cheers ADDA.posting.php?mode=reply&f=3&t=13226#

Hi ADDA I'm not certain to have understood what you said lol. The panels on the pictures are the "little" ones on the walls. In the front corners their are already 2 big panels (2,5m hight, 72cm wide, 200mm deep). I used this solution because building a real superchunk makes too much problems for different reason, even if I know this would be the best solution for absorbing low frequencies. I'm planning to put wood slats on those corner panel and to add a joint on their back edge so as to make them air tight with the wall : this would make a kind of tuned absorber in the low frequencies. How we say in french it is a way to cut the pear in two :D (that's means to reach a compromise )

I'm not certain to have understood what you said.

Same Phazinhead Lol! (When I reply your post text is wide off the screen?). Ok, So you can't Super-chunk for some reason, though your corner Traps or Bass Corner Traps have 20 cm of depth (Triangle front) and are going to be airtight & slatted? Are you sure you have the right trap in mind here, as John showed you what could be done with a previous link & Ethan has various designs shown. So when you say airtight you mean wrapped in plastic or totally sealed in the corner with silicone & wood etc, I was just wondering that you had the right trap design. Looking good though! Best ADDAhttp://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/posti ... 3&t=13226#

Hi ADDA What I mean by "airtight" is not exactly perfectly airtight with a silicon joint. Currently the panels are just placed tight to the wall, in the front corner. They don't have any slats on front. I made some measure before and after placing those corner panels.. and the measures show there were no differences between before and after in the low frequencies ! So I thought it would be better to make them airtight and tuned in the low frequencies to be effective. I can't drill or put any silicon joint on the wall for different reasons. So I imagined to use that kind of "joint" in rubber (you know big rubber joint mounted on some windows or doors to make them airtight like this : http://www.rsssim.com/images/Big/315001 ... x320_U.jpg or http://www.vicone.ca/_images/photos/22-E_f.jpg), which would makes the panel more airtight with the wall.. however it will not be "watertight". I also imagined to place those panels in the rear corner and to built 2 real superchunk in the front corner. Another idea : "column" trap. I found some website making advertising for it, however this not a populated solution.. so I don't know what to think about it effectivness. It could be made for example by stacking 2 wool rool (like this : http://www.leroymerlin.fr/multimedia-st ... 2186-z.jpg)... I just made a new measure of the room with the 3 panels in the rear wall and the 2 panels in the front corner.. the correction looks pretty good, don't you think ? in any case it is more "listenable" now, but the room still need some correction... I believe a good correction is when the difference between peaks and null is in a 10dB range.