Is this unsafe construction???

Today I was invited to take a look at a "music room" that is under construction, for my opinion on how they are building it, and I was rather surprised to see something that looks decidedly unsafe to me! I'm not a structural engineer by any stretch, but this just looks way out of line, IMHO. I got hold of the construction foreman and pointed out several issues that seemed wrong to me, and he insisted they were all just fine. I'd REALLY appreciate some comments from folks who know construction. Is this safe? (Sorry about the poor quality of the photo, but the only camera I had on me was my cell phone. But I think it is good enough to see the issues.) The studs are all 2x4, and there is only a single 2x4 top plate. The joists are 2x8's and they are spanning 4.3 m, roughly. There is one joist towards the left hand side of the room, and one towards the right side. The entire ceiling structure rests on only four points, which are the ends of those 2x8s. Two of those points are like in the picture above, where the 2x8 is resting on the single top plate, mid-span between two studs, and is secured by only two nails driven up through the top plate into the joist. (The vertical white thing just behind the point where the 2x8 rests on the top plate is a concrete pillar that is part of the outer-leaf brick wall in the background. There is no connection at all between that and the framing visible in the photo. You can't really see from the photo, but there is a gap of about 2 inches between the framing and the concrete pillar). Those two 2x8 load-bearing joists are actually 72 inches apart, joined by several 2x4s placed 24" OC. In the photo you can also see a series of 2x4 blocking "stringers" running parallel to the 2x8 joists, 36" from each of them. The stringers do not reach the end plates. So basically the entire ceiling rests on four points like the one shown. They plan to hang at least two layers of 5/8 drywall from this structure, and frankly the whole thing scares me. There's roughly 12 m2 of ceiling area up there, so I figure a load of close to 300 kg of drywall alone, plus the framing itself (probably another 100 kg or so, at a guess). That puts 400 kg spread basically across 4 points. 100 kg per point, like the one pictured above. If I grab hold of the framing in the center of the ceiling and hang all my weight from it (78kg), it sags about 1 cm. Question: Does anyone here think this is safe construction? Would you be happy to sit under that lot while you played with your band? Does it meet code where YOU live? Would it pass inspection? (Don't forget to take into account that Chile is an EARTHQUAKE ZONE! ) Comments, anyone? If you were in my shoes, what would you recommend that they do to here, to make it safe? I already told them what I thought they should do, but I'd love to hear other opinions! - Stuart -

a span of 4,3m is a lot for such little beams. BUT any inspector should check if they are building to code.

Both the wall with the single top plate and the double top plate (to left of screen) it doesn't look like the ceiling is touching that either?? Might be the picture but it looks like I can see red brick through the small gap. Is it possible the "4 points" are connected to the brick wall? and not resting on the top plates. NOt that that changes anything.

Both the wall with the single top plate and the double top plate (to left of screen) it doesn't look like the ceiling is touching that either??

Exactly! No contact there: The ceiling will butt up against that double-top plate, but there isn't even a nailing strip up there to attach the edges to, so I guess they just intend to caulk it. How much weight can caulk support? :)

Might be the picture but it looks like I can see red brick through the small gap. Is it possible the "4 points" are connected to the brick wall? and not resting on the top plates.

Nope! I thought the same as you did when I saw it from across the room, but I checked closely: Unfortunately, there is no contact at all between "4 points" and bricks. Those "4 point" joists rest only on the unsupported span of single top plate, and don't touch anything else. :shock: This might be the Chilean version of "Russian Roulette": Stand under that finished ceiling, and wait for an earthquake to strike, to see if the chamber is loaded or not.... Anybody want to play? :) - Stuart -

Hi, I'm no expert or engineer but what i see in the photo is indeed very scary. In my drum room where a the new ceiling is sitting on the inner walls and the span is less than what u mentioned, the engineer recommended a bare minimum of double 2x4 top plates with 6x2 joists sitting on that. This took 2 layers of drywall. The structure didn't budge when i'd hang out of it... As mentioned already any inspection anywhere in the world would not pass whats going on in that photo, it looks like they just ran out of timber and used what they had left regards hally

Thanks Hally! I agree totally: it wouldn't pass inspection, and my guess is that they are building "on the quiet", without permits or inspections. I can't see any way that a Chilean inspector would pass that. Thanks for your comments! - Stuart -