Redesign of Control Room - best mix position - Ireland

Hi Everyone, Before I start I’d like to thank everyone to date who has given me valuable advice on this forum. I am well into my studio build here in Ireland but due to a few oversights and lack of knowledge on my behalf I am back in design forum to try and come up with a better design for the studio’s control room (which can best be described as a tricky space to soundproof and acoustically treat). The full studio consists of CR, a main live room, drum room, office area, machine room, toilet/ shower room and possibly vocal booth depending on redesign of CR The Control Room is located on the second floor and has a vaulted ceiling with the angle of each slope of the ceiling being different. This means that the two roof plains meet at a point that is not @ the centre of the rooms width. The side walls are also @ different heights. The Room sits on floor joists (which have been reinforced with a 9x 3 beam underneath to cater for the added weight being placed on them, this work was overseen by the engineer). 1 layer of ¾” osb sits on these joists. The perimeter walls have 2 layers of ½” plasterboard added to their original composite, all sealed airtight. These walls will be forming the outer leaf of a room within a room structure. Room Dimensions: W 12’ X L 24’ X H 7’8” @ the apex of the vaulted roof. Floor Square footage: 288sq feet The Roof: The space between the rafters has been beefed up with 3 layers of ½” plasterboard (see photo), all sealed, etc. I will be stuffing fiberglass insulation in the remaining cavity and hanging 2 layers of ½” plasterboard on resilient channels attached to the rafters @ 16” centers (this will form the inner leaf of the room within a room). The added weight to the roof structure was not an issue for the engineer… Questions: From the options outlined below what is the more preferable Mix Position or maybe someone can come up a different suggestion? 1. Mix Position: Option #1: As I see it, for me to have my mix position running the lenght of the room I will have to fix the symmetry of the room. This can be achieved by matching the tilt of rafters (a) with that of rafters (b) and making both inner leaf side walls the same height. This would leave me with a symmetrical room measuring approx. Width 10'-3" Height (Side Walls) 5'-7" Height @ Apex of ceiling 7'-6" Length (can be adjusted to a good room ratio) max 22', min 18'. My thoughts on option #1 Pros. 1. Using the length of the room for mix position 2. Should be able to set up a 5.1 speaker setup Cons. 1. losing a lot of floor space, room becomes quite narrow. 2. The ceiling height @ apex is lowered several inches and also makes the space tight 3. More complicated construction than option #2 Option #2: Another possibility would be to rotate the mix position 90 degrees south to face the heigher of the 2 long side walls. My thoughts on option #2 Pros. 1. Maximizing the floor space and headroom available 2. Symmetry already exists 3. Space feels less imposing when I sit in this position Cons. 1. Not mixing the length of the room 2. Not sure if 5.1 setup can be achieved 3. Might be difficult to acoustically treat (especially bass) the room with this mix position I hope the above makes some sense and if anyone needs me to clarify anything just let me know...I have lots more questions lined up, HVAC, acoustic treatment, soffit mounting, etc, but they will be determined by where I am advised to put the Mix position... Looking forward to your replies, warm regards from hally and a very sunny Ireland

Option 3# Same as 2# but 180 the desk. so your facing towards the lowest point of the room? What happened to the triangled room?? :?: :!: I wonder if with clouds your non-symetrical ceiling is really a big issue? I like option 1# in that case, but adding a new ceiling sounds like a drag!

Thanks for your input lilith, so Option 3# would look something like this 3D in Room View Aeriel View Croos Section facing the window Just a question about this suggestion, is there an acoustical reason for facing towards the lowest point of the room?

What happened to the triangled room??

Not sure what you mean by this question...

lilith_envy wrote:

I wonder if with clouds your non-symetrical ceiling is really a big issue? I like option 1# in that case, but adding a new ceiling sounds like a drag!

Option 1, mixing the lenght of the room would also be my preference and maybe someone could clarify if by adding clouds to the apex area (where slopes meet @ the highest point of the room) the non-symetrical ceiling becomes irrevelant... However I am assuming that the side wall lenghts will still have to be adjusted to be both of equal height, if so this would mean losing a bit of floor space which is at a premium... With the 3rd option you have suggested do you invisage it being possible to set up a 5.1 speaker set up, will I have enough room for the rear speakers? Thanks in advance warm regards hally :P

Option 3 sure makes the room more symmetrical, but I'd go with option 1. Shooting your monitors in the length of the room. Create an RFZ and you're gonna be fine.

Thanks Ro, Are you having the same great weather in the Netherlands as we are in Ireland, 26degrees today?

Option 3 sure makes the room more symmetrical, but I'd go with option 1. Shooting your monitors in the length of the room. Create an RFZ and you're gonna be fine.

So Mix position #1 would be your choice, Question Would you still build new rafters to match the angle of rafters (b) and move the left inner leaf wall in a bit so it is at the same height as the wall osposite, making both walls 5'- 7"? The room width would then be 10' -3" and the height to the apex of the ceiling 7' - 6", is' nt this a bit tight? Cross Section monitors shooting the lenght of the room Thanks in advance hally One more thing Ro, what is an RFZ? Is it some sort of acoustic measurment technique?

I'm with Ro on this: shoot your speakers down the long axis of the room, and try to get the symmetry as close as you can. RFZ="Reflection Free Zone". It means angling walls and ceiling, and strategically placing absorption, such that no first order reflections hit the mix position at all. Such that at the mix position all you get is direct sound straight from the speakers, with no reflections coming at you off the walls, ceiling, floor, console, desk, furniture, or anything else. - Stuart -

Hi Stuart, Thanks for the input, I'm gonna do a bit of research on Reflection Free Zone and post some designs when I'm done... Would it help if I did my model in Sketch up, I work with archicad but I'm sure theres a plugin which will format my model to .skp... Talk soon hally

hi, Sorry hally I thought you were the Irishman with the trianglar room! I just did a search to find it, but can't, must have dreamt it :oops:

No lilith, not me, i came across that post a while back also. Does anyone know of any goos sticky's or articles I could study to improve my understanding of the Reflection Free Zone idea...? Cheers hally

jup: http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Thanks Ro for that link. Its amazing really, I have read this article on several occasions but it is only now when I really need to understand these concepts do they become clear to me... I'm off to come up with my symetrical design for the room and a 1st draft of where to place absortion etc, within the room... This may take me a day or 2 but I'll post back as soon as its ready Thanks again hally

Soundman2020 wrote:

try to get the symmetry as close as you can - Stuart -

Quick question, Is it very important that the window forms part of the symmetry? What I mean is that the centre point of the window alings with what will be the line of the new apex (where the new vaulted ceilings meet at the highest point) What I am doing is taking the window as my central point and working out my dimentions from that? Thanks hally

Does anyone know of any goos sticky's or articles I could study to improve my understanding of the Reflection Free Zone idea...? Hi Hally do a search for "reflection free zone" and get past these recent referals..

Hi John, Thanks for coming in on my post, its a busy family weekend for me here with my wife and baby girl, so it will be monday before I can dedicate time to studying and completing the design... Thanks everyone hally

Hi folks, Im the Irish guy with the triangle rooms!! (newbie needs help with unusual project in triangle rooms) Also actually planning a build with the cr and vocal booth upstairs over a live room too, its nice to see someone else looking at this seriously as an option aswell. These plans and pics look really great Hally fair play agait. :) Is there a post up with pics of the upstairs floor downstairs ceiling setup? I plan to start work on the floor/ceiling in my own rooms in the next fortnight, and would love to see how others went about doing it. hope all reading this are well donal