Steele Audio Productions - Studio Design

Hey everybody! Been lurking here for weeks (and I think I was looking through this site quite a while ago when considering doing a basement studio). In any case, I've spent a lot of time reading, searching, thinking, planning, drawing...... and now it's time for someone else to pick things apart and maybe help with some of my design. My eyes have been looking at this for so long I feel stuck in a corner... Intro: I'm Bryan.... Hi....., I live in Wichita, KS. The heart of America. My trade is aerospace engineering, but I love music. I have been doing live sound at church and random events for the past 6 years, and have dabbled in recording for the past 3 or so, but I want to take it much more seriously. I am also a musician who has played with various people over the years. My wife and I just bought our first house, and lucky for me, the basement is completely unfinished. This should mean that if I take my time and do things right, I could have pretty sweet little setup in the basement. The Plan: - 2 rooms, live room (4-5 piece band), control room, possibly a gear or amp closet - Good isolation from the rest of the house and the outside (so I don't bother the wife) - I will typically be recording rock-ish music, and occasionally with a live drummer - Being our first house, I want to maintain re-sale value as much as possible. I'd love to go nuts with the splayed walls and such, but it would probably be prudent to make it a room that could convert into a bedroom or office or media room later. - Could probably put in 1 or 2 helmholtz traps in the control room - Space is key - I will be adding at least 1 bedroom, bathroom, and if possible, a living room, but I'm going to plan and finish this all together. I wish I could make the whole thing a studio, but that probably wouldn't go over too well with my wife. - I would like to keep the budget to under $5,000 for the studio project. As I will be finishing the rest of the basement around the same time, hopefully I can consolidate costs for basic building materials like framing and drywall. But I also know those aren’t the most expensive items in the studio design. I can go more expensive than that, but hopefully this design will get me a better idea of cost. Attached below is the basic as is basement, the existing walls are structural memebers. I am willing to move a structural wall or two, but my concern is the location of the footings (see construction photo). I have placed lines where the builder had originally planned for the basement to be finished out, but I am open to changing it up a bit. However, the location of the bathroom and mechanical is pretty much set. Also included are some rough models of where the fuse box, potential pipe problems, and the mechanicals are located. Note: the vertical height of the room is 8’9” to the trusses. The studio layout I have attached is my original concept without moving any of the structural walls. Some issues are that I would need to set up a window system of some sort due to the nature of the "view-out" basement (there are windows there, I just have not modeled them yet in SketchUp). And this seems to be a bit inefficient on space. As you can see, to maintain symmetry in the control room, I have set up a small "amp closet." My idea here is that I could place a speaker cabinet inside, soundproof the chamber, and wail on an electric guitar without having as much ambient noise. I figure some Helmholtz traps would be easy enough to include, but because of my room configuration, I’m unsure where the best location for them would be. Mainly, I'm just concerned I'm not thinking enough outside the box, and using my space effectively, so I wanted your thoughts. Aside from the view-out windows, I also don't have the typical joist floor system. I have floor trusses. This means using Rod's book for determining how much drywall I can add won't work. I have attached a few photos, and was hoping to get some thoughts on how to address the maximum span. I found a pdf resource on the topic, which I have also attached, but wanted to see what you thought. OK, here’s a rundown of the specific questions I have - How can I address the view-out windows in an appropriate fashion? - How do I add mass to the subfloor with a truss system, and would the pdf documentation put me in the right direction for determining the maximum mass allowed? - Would my “amp closet” create a negative 4-leaf space? Is there a way around this, or should I just make that area a storage closet? - Would there be a better layout for the basement than what I am currently envisioning? I hope that I have addressed everything adequately, if I have missed something, or need to clarify, just let me know. I plan on continuing to update my models and photos to the post as the design and plan progresses, and as long as I have my job in about a year, I'll probably get started on construction. Thanks again, and your forum is pretty amazing. I'm so glad you experts are willing to help the new guys out! Peace and blessings, Bryan

Here of some of the photos which I was not able to include with the first post...

I would suggest re arranging your room layouts to make them not cube-shaped. so far, most of your rooms are almost a cube and thats the worst size for a room. Try angling some walls to create new shapes and use most space available

On the live room: My ratio is 1.00:1.57:1.70. I know this isn't the most ideal room, but according to the excel calculator I downloaded (Chris Whealy), it's not a horrible one. Hopefully some helmholtz traps woul dhandle this. On the control room: Because of the arrangement, how would I determine the "room ratio." I really would like to avoid splayed walls since this is our first house to maintain the resale value. Unless maybe I could claim one of the rooms as a "movie room" or something along those lines that the general public would get excited about. I just want to avoid specializing the room too much. I know this will result in a lot of additional room treatment, but unless someone has a good reason to not do this, it probably makes the most for me in my situation. Thanks, Bryan

By the layout you posted, I see the inner framings are touching the existing walls, also, each room is directly attached to each other. You need to make sure the inner framing is NOT touching the existing walls. About the windows, you should treat them like control room/live room windows, that means, putin one window in your INNER framing, and the other one on the existing wall (outside) About the storage room, I dont see a problem with that.

jbassino wrote:

By the layout you posted, I see the inner framings are touching the existing walls, also, each room is directly attached to each other. You need to make sure the inner framing is NOT touching the existing walls.

Actually, there is a 1 inch space between the walls and the foundation, and 1 inch between the two room walls. The fidelity of the drawing just doesn't demonstrate it very well. However, the end of the two side walls in the control room do currently butt up against the main structural wall. I figure this won't be a huge issue since in the control room I won't be running more than 80 db on a regular basis, and I'm also planning on using resilient channel to mount the drywall.

jbassino wrote:

About the windows, you should treat them like control room/live room windows, that means, putin one window in your INNER framing, and the other one on the existing wall (outside)

Would this require me to replace the existing window (that can open), or would just adding the window to the inner wall keep enough isolation? As far as the layout, I'm open to other ideas, as I've been staring at this thing for too long, and I feel like it needs a fresh take, but I'm unsure how else I could do it.

Steele Audio wrote:

the end of the two side walls in the control room do currently butt up against the main structural wall. I figure this won't be a huge issue since in the control room I won't be running more than 80 db on a regular basis, and I'm also planning on using resilient channel to mount the drywall.

If you keep your inner leaf framing independent then resilient channel is unnecessary.

Steele Audio wrote:

I also don't have the typical joist floor system. I have floor trusses. This means using Rod's book for determining how much drywall I can add won't work. I have attached a few photos, and was hoping to get some thoughts on how to address the maximum span. I found a pdf resource on the topic, which I have also attached, but wanted to see what you thought.

This is a brand new house, correct? You or your builder have a truss drawing with an engineer's stamp on it. I would contact that engineer and ask about adding load to the trusses.

Thanks for the info, stuntbutt, I have just a few more follow-on questions with that.

stuntbutt wrote:

If you keep your inner leaf framing independent then resilient channel is unnecessary.

I'm figuring the wall with the 1 inch space will probably generate about an STC of 60-ish around the foundation edge, but at the front of the control room, that wall is tied into the structure above (that's the structural wall I mentioned). Would my best bet in this situation be to use resilient channel mounting on this wall, and keep the rest of the structure seperate?

stuntbutt wrote:

This is a brand new house, correct? You or your builder have a truss drawing with an engineer's stamp on it. I would contact that engineer and ask about adding load to the trusses.

That's a good plan, I was going to call them anyway about putting some doors in place. How would adding mass to the bottom of the subfloor work in this situation? Would it be mostly the same as Rod's method? Thanks again.

You should replace the existing window for laminated/termopanel glass for maximun isolation

Steele Audio wrote:

Would my best bet in this situation be to use resilient channel mounting on this wall, and keep the rest of the structure seperate?

Your best bet is to not use the existing wall as part of your inner leaf.

How would adding mass to the bottom of the subfloor work in this situation? Would it be mostly the same as Rod's method?

Good point. You don't have dimensional lumber joists to attach a 1x3 cleat to. Also, if yo just add drywall to the bottom face of the subfloor the area where the top cord of your truss will have less density the rest. Maybe Rod will chime in.

jbassino wrote:

You should replace the existing window for laminated/termopanel glass for maximun isolation You should replace the existing window for laminated/termopanel glass for maximun isolation

Thanks, I'll look into how to get that window replaced.

stuntbutt wrote:

Your best bet is to not use the existing wall as part of your inner leaf.

Well, here are my options. Since it is structural, I can move the wall so long as the footers shown above are not an issue (probably at great expense), I can make it a three-wall system (with the middle wall just being the structural wall and having no drywall), or I can make the wall the inner leaf of one of my rooms, and since I figure the live room (110 db) will need more isolation, the Control Room (80 db) is the lesser of two evils. You might have an idea other than those, but those are the options that I see. Which one would you recommend and why? And that would be most excellent if Rod would chime in :)

Steele Audio wrote:

Well, here are my options. Since it is structural, I can move the wall so long as the footers shown above are not an issue (probably at great expense), I can make it a three-wall system (with the middle wall just being the structural wall and having no drywall), or I can make the wall the inner leaf of one of my rooms, and since I figure the live room (110 db) will need more isolation, the Control Room (80 db) is the lesser of two evils. You might have an idea other than those, but those are the options that I see. Which one would you recommend and why?)

I would frame around it. Better isolation and you only lose 4".

Hey stunt, I found some very interesting stuff online regarding STC class, and I thought I would share it here. It's all in this huge pdf file of basically every type of floor/ceiling or wall you could conceive constructing. Pretty amazing. If John wants a copy to post on here somewhere, I could provide that. This is something the State of California compiled. I've attached the photos here of the different type of assemblies I am considering. STC is the first number in the fourth column. For the live room, I am expecting a sound level approximately 110 db (maybe slightly more). And in the control room I am anticipating 80 db (the sound level you can be exposed to for long periods without fatigue). Since I have not yet measured the inside of my house, I am anticipating a need to reduce to 40-50 db, based on the "Fundamentals of Acoustics" book from my Acoustics class. This would be the ambient level. This means in the live room, I need 60-70 db of reduction, and 40 db in the control room (we'll round this up to 50 just to account for short periods of time). My understanding so far is that the sound goes through your weakest link. If there's a hole, the sound goes there, if there is a weak wall, the sound goes there. The weak link in all of these assemblies is the floor/ceiling arrangement. However, this would probably be boosted be a few db once a second layer of drywall is added to the bottom of the truss. And this assembly is much weaker in my case since it is not a joist system, but trusses. So for my live room, I very much am needing to use seperate independant wall structures, because the sound levels are so much larger. However, in the control room, since levels should be lower, I won't need as much isolation. The only thing I really need is to decouple the structure with resilient channels, so that the flanking paths do not transmit noise above, since it is a structural wall. OK, does this make sense? I know I would only lose 4 inches by building another wall, but is it worth losing 4 inches if I don't need that extra isolation to achieve my goal? Have I made an assumption which is not applicable? Secondly, I'm thinking about turning my room sideways, because I may have an issue with door clearance (I'm working on getting an updated sketchup file made to reflect this). It may actually turn out to be beneficial, but we will see. Otherwise, I may have to move the doorway on the structural wall, which could be complicated. Finally, a question on bass traps. If I build a Helmholtz trap or other type of bass device into the corner, is there a way to create the structure so that I can get behind it later (door, etc.) when I am not using the space for sound? This is because of my location of a drainage pipe (which isn't a big deal) and my fuse box (which is a big deal). I've seen the access panel that Rod has designed for an air-conditioning unit, but what about building something like that for a bass trap? Thanks for the help, I am making a lot of progress right now on my plans. Oh, and lastly, I'm bad with picturing the amount of space 4-5 people would take up in a tracking room, does the live room look large enough? Peace, Bryan

Bryan, If you look at the third column in the PDF file you have, it gives you a date and the house that ran the testing on these assemblies. Most of these ratings are approaching 40 years old. For a more up-to-date document repository, go to : http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/index_e.html As to a primer of sorts, to get a handle on what an OITC is and how it stacks up to the much celebrated STC, goto : http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/pubs/ir/ir818/ For a better indication of an assemblies performance in a low end frequency environment, the OITC rating is a better indicator. An stc is based on what the human ear can detect so while it is one indicator it is not, or shouldn't be, considered the final indicator of sound related panels and assemblies. Good luck, Brien

Brien, Thanks for that info, I'll definitely check it out. However, I don't think 40 years really makes a difference. Some of the best aerodynamics work and information comes from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. I haven't read anything yet, but I'm betting the OITC focuses more on the vibration strength of a sound wave, as opposed to ear sensitivity. More work yet to be done. Anybody have thoughts on if it's possible to create a helmholtz trap over my fuse box, but still have a way to access it? Bryan