Studio in a Wooden Shed

Hi Guys, After quickly realising that building a studio from scratch out of block was way to expensive, we have decided to attempt to build one entirely out of wood. In much the same way you would make a 6 X 4 garden shed, only larger. I have a rough design of how we would like to frame the interior, however the floor is causing me problems. I intend to frame the walls as follows: exterior wall : Wooden cladding on a 50mm insulated timbre frame : 80mm air gap interior wall : 50mm insulated timbre with 2 layers of plaster board (interior face) I'd also like to use this green glue i've read about on this forum between the boards, but what is this in the UK? Would this give me enough sound proofing on the walls? The studio will be positioned roughly 80/90 meters away from any neighbours, but only 2 meters from a public foot path, where people walk their dogs... If so (i hope so :D ), i'm not sure how to stop the sound escaping through the floor, as the shed will be sitting on skids, and so raised off the ground Could anyone help me out with this? Thanks in advance Alex Rough design below, the exterior walls are somewhere around that size, but we haven't taken an accurate measurement yet... There is also an 80mm air gap between the rooms on the attached picture, all interior walls as stated above Oh, and the odd shape is due to the shape of the bottom of the garden...

Hey there Alex. Welcome!

I have a rough design of how we would like to frame the interior, however the floor is causing me problems.

By far the easiest and best for your floor is to just pour a concrete slab directly on the ground. Easy, fast, cheap (relatively!), and great acoustically.

I intend to frame the walls as follows: exterior wall : Wooden cladding on a 50mm insulated timbre frame

It looks like you have the right basic idea, but what do you mean by "50mm insulated timbre frame"? Do you mean using timber that measures 50 mm x 50 mm, building a stud frame with it, and putting insulation in the gaps between the studs? Or do you mean something else? In any case, 50mm x 50mm wood is too small for this kind of job. You need at least 2"x4", which is something like 90 x 40 mm, and even better would be 2x6 (which is somethig like 135 x 40 mm, I think), especially if you plan to place the studs 60 cm OC, instead of the normal 40 cm OC. They need to support a LOT of mass, so they need to be tough. And what do you mean by "wood cladding"? Is "cladding" the same as what they call "siding" in the USA? If so, then you need something massive under the cladding, like some thick plywood or something similar. Cladding (siding) by itself won't be much use, acoustically. Your outer leaf needs to have substantial mass, so you need to put the cladding on top of that "mass".

: 80mm air gap interior wall : 50mm insulated timbre with 2 layers of plaster board (interior face)

Once again, you should probably consider larger timber. It needs to support a lot of mass. And 80 mm is about as small as you want to go on your air gap. A larger air gap would be better.

I'd also like to use this green glue i've read about on this forum between the boards, but what is this in the UK?

In the UK it is still called "Green Glue". Only one company makes it, and there is no substitute. I think I recall reading a post here ages ago about someone who found an importer for Green Glue in the UK, but I don't recall where. Try writing to the Green Glue company directly, and ask for the contact details for their UK distributors.

Would this give me enough sound proofing on the walls?

How much do you need? How much is "enough"? :) You are asking "Is this piece of string long enough?", without telling us what you need to do with the string!!! Did you read the stickies at the top of the forum? Especially the one about "Read this before you post"? You need to provide all the information listed there. Otherwise people here cannot help you. How loud are you, what do you plan to do in there, how loud are your surroundings, how quiet do you need the outside noises to be inside your room to be, how quiet to you need your inside noise to be outside, etc, etc, etc.

i'm not sure how to stop the sound escaping through the floor, as the shed will be sitting on skids, and so raised off the ground

:shock: :!: That is a really, really, bad, bad, BAD idea! Forget the skids, forget the air gap underneath, and build it properly on a concrete slab. The slab will be your floor. If not, then don't build it at all. Sorry to be blunt, but you need to hear the truth. There is no way on this planet that those skids will support the weight you are going to put on them. The construction you need is going to weight many, many TONS. Those skids will sink into the earth, and they will not even do it evenly. So your shed will end up half sunk, lopsided, and useless. Even if you get very lucky, and the earth gods decide to intervene and only sink your skids partially while holding up your shed reasonably straight, even then a thin wooden floor over an air gap is arguably the worst possible floor you can possibly have, acoustically. Would you consider recording vocals while sitting on top of a very large drum? Of course not. Well, a thin wooden floor over an air gap is exactly that: a very large drum head.... Think about it. Bad idea. Go for the concrete slab.

Rough design below,

The rough design looks OK. Except that you don't need to build inner-leaf walls inside the triangular shaped things at the top right and bottom right (on the control room edges)! Just leave those empty. What ratio are you planning on using for your control room? And what are the other two rooms for? You also don't mention the height or the ceiling construction, and I don't see any doors or windows in there.... You do need to get in and out somehow! :) - Stuart -

Hi SoundMan, thanks for the reply. Yes, everything you've pointed out is true, i was just trying to keep the cost down... OK so i'll build a concrete slab, that's definitley the way forward. The little triangle at the back of the control room is where the fuse box is going, that way it's hidden up (do i need to build the leaf for this?) Also i found the green glue website! what a div!, i didn't realise that was the company name... :oops: Height...? well i'm 6ft 3" so mimimum it will have to be 2m inside... but that's not allowing for clouds... yes the timber is 2X4X8, so 50mm wide. I mean i'll build the outer frame as usual and put insulation in the gaps So i'll make the walls like the attached picture from the green glue website, however i'm not sure about the outside. Should i do two layers of board, then the wooden siding (cladding) ? will this be protected enough for the elements? Sound proofing: As we live out in the sticks there is rarley a lot of outside noise, however on occasions there may be a tractor in the field next to the footpath even so, i would obviously like to stop as much as possible coming in and out, and from room to room... Type of music : from acoustic folk to rock metal... Thanks again

OK, So think i've got how i'll build the shed, My dad built his own in the past which he uses for his workshop, and it's still there 30 years on, so he's helped me out. Basically a wooden building on a concrete slab. Also we may have a new place to put it, so the design above could totally change, so ignore for now :) I'd like to have two layers of board on the outside covered in usual shed weather board, then insulated inside. My concern is now how to frame the inside rooms. I have been looking on the SAE website, and have seen a lot on this forum, so would like to know your opinion. Please find attached to the two images One has the standard double plasterboard, however i have seen the second on some of johns designs (i think), where the plasterboard is on the inside, and the cavity in the frame used for slots? I thought the second maybe a good idea as the rooms are not going to be massive and so will surely need some help through slots and traps... which would give me the best STC rating? Thanks again, and in advance...

The little triangle at the back of the control room is where the fuse box is going, that way it's hidden up (do i need to build the leaf for this?)

Naah, no need for that. You could even chop that angle off the entire building, and just put your distribution panel (fuse box) inside the CR itself! Save lots of time, effort and money like that.

Height...? well i'm 6ft 3" so mimimum it will have to be 2m inside... but that's not allowing for clouds...

2M??? :shock: You'll need more than that! You need to get your ceiling as high as you can. How high can you go?

yes the timber is 2X4X8, so 50mm wide.

So you are not using normal "nominal" lumber? But rather you are using what they call "dimension lumber" here in Chile, where the wood is actually the size of the numbers? A normal 2x4 does not actually measure 2 inches by 4 inches. It measures 1 1⁄2 inches × 3 1⁄2 inches, which is 38 mm × 89 mm. So if you have 50 mm wood, then that really is 2 inches, in which case I guess the other dimension of your wood must be 100 mm? That's unusual, but good. It means your wood will be bigger and stronger than the standard designs you see here. So you should be able to do 24" OC framing with no trouble.

Should i do two layers of board, then the wooden siding (cladding) ? will this be protected enough for the elements?

You should probably use something like Tyvek under the cladding, to keep the moisture out but still allow the wood to breathe. There must be something similar where you live.

Basically a wooden building on a concrete slab.

Yup! That's the idea!

I'd like to have two layers of board on the outside covered in usual shed weather board, then insulated inside.

Right. That will be your outer leaf. You do need to seal that tight, with caulk, or whatever they call the equivalent where you live. Maybe just "sealant". You don't want any air leaks at all. The wall must be airtight.

One has the standard double plasterboard, however i have seen the second on some of johns designs (i think), where the plasterboard is on the inside, and the cavity in the frame used for slots?

Yes, that's usually called "inside-out construction", since the wall is basically built the "wrong" way around: studs towards the room, drywall towards the cavity. The advantage that this wall gives you is better use of space, if you are very tight on your room dimensions.

which would give me the best STC rating?

Both! :) What I mean by that is that they can both give you the same amount of isolation, depending on how you build them. The isolation of an MSM wall depends basically on two factors: How much mass you put into the leaves, and how much air gap there is between the leaves. It doesn't really matter much where you put the STUDS that are holding up those leaves: what matters is the leaves themselves, and how far apart they are, not how you hold them up. So if two walls have the same mass in the each leaf and the same air gap, then they should give you the same isolation, regardless of whether you build them "inside-out" or normally. One comment about those two wall construction diagrams that you showed: You can skip the "floating" floor detail in those, and just use your concrete floor. You don't need to float your floor in your case, and it is really hard and really expensive to do it right anyway. Your bare concrete on grade is an excellent floor all by itself. Or if you don't like the way concrete looks, just glue some laminate wood flooring directly to the concrete.

I thought the second maybe a good idea as the rooms are not going to be massive and so will surely need some help through slots and traps...

You sure will need some kind of treatment in there! No doubt about that. Inside-out gives you an easy way to make slot walls if you want, or just fill the stud gaps with rock wool and cover it with acoustic cloth of you need more absorption. Also plan to use very large, thick, wide bass traps in the corners of your CR. You will need them! Don't plan to put doors or furniture in those corners. - Stuart -

Hi! Well it's being build from scratch, so as high as we like... well ,1 storey... obviously :wink: Think we have Tyvek, although that is the solid stuff and not the foam...? Ok i have done another drawing, does this look better? (Thanks for all the help!) p.s. i am also working on another studio design... but is gulfo still on this forum, he done me and awesome one before and would love his opinion...

Now THAT'S looking much better! Slab on grade, two-leaf wall, lots of mass... Yup! That's the basic idea. Although you probably do need some more stuff in there, such as some kind of damp-proofing and sealing on the external part of your slab / wall (where it is in contact with the ground, etc.). Your local code will specify what is acceptable and not acceptable for that. Or talk to a contractor. You could also probably skip the neoprene pad under the inner wall if you want to save money: a few beads of caulk (sealant) under the sole plate will accomplish the same thing, which is to seal the bottom of the wall to the slab, airtight.

Think we have Tyvek, although that is the solid stuff and not the foam...?

I guess I should have been more specific! I'm talking about their "Homewrap" product, which is a kind of cloth-like material, sold as long and wide rolls, that is impervious to water but still allows air to pass, so the underlying structure can "breathe", but is still protected from moisture. You attach it to the plywood, immediately underneath the cladding.

but is gulfo still on this forum, he done me and awesome one before and would love his opinion...

I haven't seen him post in quite a while. I wish he would! - Stuart -