Dedicated studio at last - got to get it right 1st time!

Hello People, Firstly - thank you for all the great information on this forum :D I am located in Johannesburg - South Africa and recently moved onto a new property where I have the space to build a dedicated studio. The studio would be a new isolated structure with the nearest other structure being the family home apprx 10 meters away. I have received the go ahead from the local authorities so it is getting time to commit to the layout. I would like to record live instruments including drums. And would then also like to achieve the isolation to prevent the family getting upset as one mans music is anothers noise - In the CR normal levels would be 80-90dB SPL. Budget is around 250000ZAR which is approx 25000EUR - I would also need to furnish with this and hopefully have some left for more gear. After browsing this forum for hours and reading Rod Gervais book - I have come up with a layout of sorts and would welcome any comments/advice you wish to offer. All the below refers to the attached zipped sketchup model of my proposed layout. The structures' outer walls would need to be 9 inch brick and mortar with a pitched tiled roof at 27 degrees with the apex centered along the longest dimension. I propose then for the inside of the outer walls to have an air gap with a single stud drywall system. CR/Live room divider to be dual stud drywall system. The CR is sunken around 600mm as this allows me to use the area available for outboard gear (see file for graphic) and the Live room is at an intermediate level for better CR view of the live room. The CR and live room would be on separate haunched floor slabs. I have not yet explored all the options for interior acoustic treatment - but have opted for a slanted CR wall. The roof would use scissor trusses so for the live room I could follow the truss with the ceiling system to gain as much volume as possible. For the CR I intend for a slanted ceiling which is 8ft in front and 10ft at the rear. I use a DAW with dual displays and analogue desk with outboard mic pres etc - this may give an idea for CR ergonomics. Soffit mounted mains would be great with stand mounted nearfields. Gobos can be used in the live room but I normally track instruments individually after the guide track is down. A drum riser which is decoupled from the rest of the live room floor would be interesting. Please let me know what your thoughts are on the layout attached - I had to zip to keep within the 500k but wanted to put the model up as all the dimensions and fiddly bits are in there. Thanks for your time. Sean

Hi, Nice intro. I think your design is getting there- But I doubt the local authorities would approve the entry door to thwe live room. Nor would it be easy to get gear in and out. John does a design where the control window is replaced with a double glass door, either sleding or swing. That may be the only option if you what to keep that lay-out.

I can't open your zip file. But remove the door, run the wall straight across, use the void that is created as a bass trap(both sides) And centralize the door. lil

Hi Lil - thanks for taking the time to coment. OK so I spent some more time on this - I think youre right about the access to the live room - it was tight :x I had already started on a new "skew" wall design and that is down below and then I did one with the wall straight as you suggested. Both designs are for the listen position at 38% of the CR length with the monitor focal point about 400mm behind that. I seem to be able to get more in with the skew wall design and can get better isolation (in design anyway) between the CR and Live Room while keeping the Live Room well isolated from the outside world to control the drum sound levels that I expect. Also, with the skew wall I get a good bass trap at the rear. With the straight wall it certainly look a lot simpler - access is good and as you stated - bass traps at the forward corners are relatively easy to get in. I have added the surrounding walls and stuff so you can get an idea of my limitations for space - I was able to increase the overall size a wee bit. :) Let me know what you think of these? ps - it takes winzip12 to open the file in the first post.

Hi All (read as Lil) - I have changed the title to try and attract more comments/Advice :wink: Having spent a little more time with this I am leaning torwards the layout below - the CR is large enough and the Live Room can be properly isolated from the outside world. The door leading to the Live Room from the CR can be 855mm wide so that is OK I think. The listening position is 38% (point D) along the length with the Monitors focussed 150mm (6inches) behind that (point E). So the equilateral triangle is based on the monitor focal point. Monitors placed at 1420mm acoustic center will need just less than 3degree angle to the focal point. The acoustical hangars are shown but certainly not calculated yet (I will take that to the acoustics forum once the layout is sorted). I have also posted another thread asking abut Corner CR ratios - I am not sure how to link that yet :? Basically - by taking the average between points A and C to give me a width. And then taking the average between points A and B to give me the depth (assuming wall A-B is considered part of the rear wall) and with an average ceiling eight of 2583 (8'4") then this layout works out to Louden's 1:1.14:1.40 ratio. Any comments please? Is there another layout totally I should be looking at? Please bear in mind the access to the entire studio is in the angled wall. Which is why I have the CR there (sound levels are not as high) and the Live Room at the back where I can isolate well. Thanks guys and gals

My CR layout is similar to yours -http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11508&start=15 John S actually sent me this layout to base mine around which helped me out a lot, but, you MUST remove that door to live room and like Lilith said put it in the center of the wall with most likely sliding doors.

Why do you feel that I need to get rid of the door and replace it with the sliding door between the Monitors? The door as shown is 855mm wide - plenty to get a 24" kick through it and I won't have a drummer heaving his kit over the console. Also, it wouldbe easier I think to maintian great isolation for the live room with a normal super door. If needed I would rather place a door from the outside into the live room directly - I just need to understand why the door is so bad as shown? It is different to the door Lil commented on (that was tight). Sean ps - just browsed yout thread - you got a great thing coming :)

Thanks Sean, It's been a long time coming. :wink: Now if I see your layout proposal correctly, your entry door between the LR and the CR is located on the far left corner of the CR correct? If this is the case then your corners are exposed, and you need to trap those. If you don't, you will be getting some major low frequency issues. And the soffits on the side are not helping you there any, because you basically have 2 tiny rooms at each corner open to the rest of the structure, which I would assume, would allocate the low frequencies to this area. Now I am far from an expert, so I would suspect someone with a bit more knowledge will poke their head in, I'm just giving you my two cents. Anyhow, the reason Lilith and I suggested a sliding door in the middle, would be so you have access to the rooms, while maintaining communication to the talent. Then, put your soffits in the corner of the room, which can double as bass traps which will take care of your corners. Does that help any?

Thanks NativeLuv17 - Bass trapping is going to be uber important in this little room. I have the door to the Live Room in the right corner of the CR if you're facing the live room - in the left small space I was planning to put some storage cupboards in and the obligitory coffee machine. At the moment althought hese two spaces are not equal in shape they are pretty close in volume which is what I was trying to go for as the volume of the space should add to the tuning of the spaces I think. I have added what I was thinking of for the ceiling - in the resultant cavity above the ceiling could be a massive bass trap :?: this bass trap would be in the trihedral corners of the walls/ceilings all the way around the room if I have it right. I am really trying to avoid the sliding door you guys are suggesting - don't get me wrong, I am here to learn. Which can be a long and tiring process for those trying to help me, for this I apologise in advance. I just like know that when I go with a choice I understand why. Thanks for your patience :roll: Attached is the pic of the ceiling profile to try and give an average height of 2583mm so the ratios would be good. Sean This is crazy - I have to log in like 12 times --------no make that 17--------to post something :x

I have the door to the Live Room in the right corner of the CR if you're facing the live room - in the left small space I was planning to put some storage cupboards in and the obligitory coffee machine.

We'll I don't mean to sound like a broken record but, I believe modes tend to meet at the corners of the room and low frequencies resonate there. So what your plan tends to show is you building those small spaces between your room corners and the back of the soffits. :shock: If you attempt to do this, i would assume most of the low end would be sucked into that area, which is very bad. What you seem to be trying to do is reposition the corners in your room through false walls, but this won't have the effect that you think it will; the corner will be a corner regardless and still needs treatment.

At the moment althought hese two spaces are not equal in shape they are pretty close in volume which is what I was trying to go for as the volume of the space should add to the tuning of the spaces I think.

Shape is extremely important in a control room, you want everything symmetrical.

I have added what I was thinking of for the ceiling - in the resultant cavity above the ceiling could be a massive bass trap :?: this bass trap would be in the trihedral corners of the walls/ceilings all the way around the room if I have it right.

It definitely sounds cool :wink: , I' not sure if it would work, I'd wait to hear from someone who has more experience than I do, I'm still a rookie. :)

I am really trying to avoid the sliding door you guys are suggesting

Why? Trust me, its a long learning process, and it will never stop. (that's a good thing by the way) Just try to do as much research as you can, don't get ahead of yourself, and read lots of posts. It will help you in the long run. By the way Sean, nice to meet you, you can call me Ian if you'd like. Oh and can you try to repost your zipped sketchup file. I dl it but can't get it to open for some reason. Thanks

Hi Ian / Lil, Sorry I have been scarce - the band got very busy suddenly and what with that and the day gig plus did I mention we are also building a guest house on our property and I am trying to site manage that as well so the studio plans had to take a back seat for a few weeks. But we're back on track again. Attached is a smaller version of the sketchup file which includes some changes (not the ones you may want to see) - let me know what you think? With ref to Rod's book - he goes through a sample design and on page 258 has a CR layout very similar to the one I want to use. It has a window and a door to the left and right of the console position and in the treatment discussion the resultant corners are left untreated. Now I think one of the main differences is that the walls to either side of the main viewing window are real walls and not "intermediate walls" as in my design, so here I am thinking to replace these intermediate walls in my design with John's inside-out wall design to create the real wall and as such the actual acoustic face. What do you think of this? I also managed to squeeze out a few more precious millimeters in the overall dimensions so was able to improve the tracking room dimensions. Thanks for the comments and help. Sean

Hey Sean, Helllo-howzit? 'n Hoegaandit? (said with my best 1980's East Rand oke slang accent :) )? I used to live on a 6-acre plot near Halfway House, many, many years ago. Also Nelspruit, Springs, and Hillbrow (In those old times when you could still live in Hilbrow and not get mugged three times per day...). So I kind of understand where you are at, I think! Anyway, glad you are back on track, and good luck with your build! A couple of questions: Is there any reason why you are going with that shape and size slab? I understand that this is a brand new build on empty land, so surely you could build the slab any shape / size you want? The reason I ask is because it seems yo are trying to squash square pegs into round holes, so to speak, and are shoehorning things in where they don't quote fit. I think it would be better to start with a different layout that makes better use of space, especially if you have the luxury of a clean build from bare earth up! If you are concerned about the "Rands per square meter" cost of the slab, then you can probably get a better layout on the same total surface area of slab, but with different dimensions. And if you really are stuck with that shape / size slab, I still think there might be better layout options open to you. Totsiens! :) (Man, it's been so long since I last spoke Afrikaans! I can't even remember how to spell simple words!!! :oops: ) - Stuart -

funny accent you got there, Stu. :) tot ziens!

funny accent you got there, Stu.

Yeah, that's what they said when I lived there and spoke it every day, too! :) - Stuart -