Basement Studio in Illinois.....

Hello all...another first-time poster here...I've been reading the forum for a while. I'm gearing up to take a stab at the infamous "basement studio". I plan on going after this slowly and methodically.....with lots of help here, I hope. I just bought and devoured Rod Gervais's book in the last 48 hours and have done a lot of work in sketchup, getting to the "post ready" point. So much great info on this forum! Thanks ahead of time for being way smarter than I. First, all the INFO... I generally use my studio space for recording demo type stuff, songwriting, and simple midi programming (drums, etc), all pop type music. My inital thought is to to use roughly 1/2 the basement as dedicated studio, and 1/2 as storage/rec room. However, I'm a pharmacist with an expensive hobby, so I'm no expert! :D I need: A quality control room and a dedicated space to record vocals. I prefer isolation as to monitor in the studio (my wife is "the singer"), so I'd prefer a two room setup if possible. I also record acoustic guitars and some hand percussion. A dedicated tracking room at this point only needs to account for those things. Right now there's no "band", so no drums,amps,etc needed. If I do end up working with musicians in the future, I would suspect I will probably end up tracking things at a professional studio and doing editing work in the home studio. Where: New construction, with an unfinished basement. I have "9ft" ceilings, concrete floor and walls. I'm in Northern Illinois, so water seepage is always an issue, but the last two years have not shown it to be a a problem and we've had some serious rain events. Over time though, our basements are notorious for cracking/leaking, so its an issue I'm a little leary of. Isolation: Neighbors to one side, (10 meters away) but since this is mostly "in the box" without many loud instruments, outside isolation is not going to be much of an issue. Isolation is primarily going to be to the floor above (washer/dryer, footfall, HVAC, TV upstairs, etc) and to keep sound out of the main floor. Budget: (i'm guessing) in the $20K range for the whole thing. My perception may be skewed downwards, so more is not out of the question. I would like a quality space....I plan on being here a while. The space: Here it is..... And the sketchup views: can someone tell me how to post the skp file (it says its too big?). Sorry I can be dumb sometimes.

Ok, a few questions before I post a design on here for critique As you can see from the next sketchup images, and from the pics above the HVAC for the above floors runs down the center of the basement. Height to joist is 8' 11", but the HVAC unit drops down to 8', and doesn't exactly run symmetrically down the space. In addition, HVAC sends/returns run between joists, which appears to limit the amount of 5/8 gypsum I can place between joists for isolation from the main floor above. Where the heck do I start with all this HVAC stuff? Is it stuff that can be easily moved/rerouted? This is the part holding me back from getting a design started. Lots of the examples on this forum will fit well in my space as far as a design goes, but the HVAC ductwork above (hanging down below, in between joists) seems like it will put quite a damper on things. As far as ceiling height/symmetry. I like the fact that the ceiling is 9ft to the joists ,but I feel like I can't exploit that. Any thoughts? thanks for any help! ps....help getting my skp file on here? it says its too big...I figured out sketchup, but apparently can't figure out how to get it on here!

Hey jlehan, 1st off, very nice on the detail for your first post. Nice to see someone who actually "gets it". 2nd, even nicer display of your Sketchup skills for, as they say, a noobie. And 3rdly, nice to see another person here from the, currently frigid, Northern Illinois area. Welcome to the forum! There are many people here much smarter than I, and can help you a whole lot more when it comes to the actual design and technical aspects. However, I can help you get your Sketchup file loaded up on here. To begin with, in your sketchup file go to window/statistics/purge unused. When you put something in the model and then erase it, it is actually still recognized in the file. Purging it will remove these unused items. If the file is still too big, you can send it to a zip file. If at that point the file is still too big, you need to use a host site such as box.com or something there similar. I hope this helps! Bryon

Thanks byron, thats what I needed!

And here's the sketchup file...(hopefully)

The zip worked fine. I was able to download the Sketchup file no prob. You took out all the HVAC though. Nevermind, found it! Bryon

Alright...I have my first initial "design" ready for any comments. The control room basically has a rectangular room ratio of 1:1.3:1.9. The room to the side will be for tracking. The airlock will also provide storage under the steps. Again, this is very basic and comments are appreciated.

Here's the skp file.....I'd love any feedback people have! Jon http://www.box.net/shared/6pkzch50qn

Here's some updated skp pictures that have included some framing. I'm not sure the best way to isolate the flush mounted monitor area from the vocal booth...am I on the right track?

I don't see your inner leaf behind the soffits. Using the soffit panel as your inner leaf is not a good idea. - Stuart -

Thanks stuart.....I'm still working on how to do those soffits correctly. You are referring to the area around the beams, correct?

I think you need to consider how much isolation you need and then if it requires a room-in-room construction. I don't see how you could frame your ceiling for a room-in-room with your current plan.

Hey Jon, Things are starting to take shape there! The area Stuart is refering to is the front of your control room where your speakers are mounted. Those are called soffits. Typically you want the are above and around your speaker to be wood, and the bottom would be cloth. The area behind there should have rockwool and acoustic hangers. Therefore, you need to have another wall in front of those soffits. That wall would make up your inner leaf. Your first design is actually more the way it should be. As far as how to set up the soffits, you want to create an equilateral triangle between yourself and the speakers. Therefore each angle of the triangle should be 60 degrees. each soffit makes up half of that. Therefore you want each soffit to be 30 degrees in from the front wall. Here is a great link that will explain soffits in great detail. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=66 And lastly stuntbutt is correct. In order to achieve isolation from your upstairs, you will need to build a ceiling that is decoupled from the upstairs floor joists. For examples, see pages 63-77 in Rod's book. Hope this helps a bit. Bryon

Hey everyone....thanks for the input. Like I said, I'm a complete newbie to all of this. I went to college for 6 years to learn my trade, and I am still learning. I don't expect I'm going to figure this out quickly....but I'm going to do my best. 1. Thanks for the info with the soffits....I am fully aware of the problems with the soffits for the monitors as represented at this point. I"m still reading my upteenth million post on possible soffit contruction methods.....I originally just stole sketchup details from John's "small studio" posting until I could get a firm grasp on that. I do know that I need to maintain a two leaf system there the keep the control room and tracking room isolated. The way it is represented now, I realize thats not the case. More on that later I guess..... As for ceiling construction, I have read Rod's book cover to cover. My current plan is to run RC perpendicular to the floor joists and add mass to the floor decking above with several layers of 5/8" gypsum , as recommended. The two layers of gypsum on the RC are then joined via acoustic caulk to the innermost gypsum inside each room. The ceilings for each room would not be attached to each other, creating isolation. So do I have that conceptually correct? Thanks again! (I'll get a few sketchup photos posted here in the next day or two hopefully to explain my ideas better.)

Here's a new and improved front end of the control room....again, I know my soffits are no where near close, but I realize they have to go inside of the inner leaf of the control room. Right?

Hey jlehan. Your original idea wasn't far wrong! those soffits were more or less OK. It was just the lack of an inner leaf that you needed to fix. I did some "pixel hacking" on your original picture to give you an idea of what you need to do. If you could post your actual SketchUp file it would be easier! Anyway, this is the basic idea:

Here's an updated sketchup to reflect my plan for the ceiling of the control room....am I on the right track? Thanks again for the info about the inner leaf issue...That helps a lot. I'll update my plans accordingly! anyways, here's the file. http://www.box.net/shared/8juk056700

...my plan for the ceiling of the control room....am I on the right track?

Sort of, but not quite! You have your inner-leaf ceiling joists (on the layer called "ceiling) directly in contact with your outer-leaf ceiling joists (those big thick ones, on the layer called "joists"). You need to drop the height of your inner-leaf walls a few inches and rest your inner-leaf joists on top of the inner-leaf walls, in order to decouple the leaves. Also, if you run your inner-leaf joists in the same direction as the outer-leaf joists but in between them, (parallel to them, instead of perpendicular as you have them currently), then you might be able to save a little more height. Alternatively, build your ceiling inside-out (sheetrock on top of the inner-leaf joists, instead of underneath it): That will also gain you several inches of ceiling height, since you can install acoustic treatment between the inner-leaf joists like that. - Stuart -

Stuart....thanks for the information. I have originally opted not to use a new set of joists there, but RC-2 (what I attempted to represent as perpendicular to the existing joists) to decouple the gypsum board from the joists above as suggested as a possibility from Rod's book. If I use RC-2, is my model correct? I'm wondering if its a little more economical than a whole new set of joists? Again, thanks so much for the help. I'm learning a ton on here! Jon

jlehan wrote:

I have originally opted not to use a new set of joists there, but RC-2 (what I attempted to represent as perpendicular to the existing joists) to decouple the gypsum board from the joists above as suggested as a possibility from Rod's book. If I use RC-2, is my model correct? I'm wondering if its a little more economical than a whole new set of joists?

Less expensive but less effective than a true room inside a room. However I think it might be the best you can do as I mentioned before, I don't think you can frame a true independent ceiling with this floor plan and the overhead obstructions you have (steel beam, HVAC ducts). Maybe you could with a different layout?

Excellent point..... I do think the existiing HVAC can be converted to flexible ducting to accommodate additional joists to create an independently framed ceiling as opposed to one hanging from RC-2. The other point to consider is that with a ceiling framed on RC-2, I end up with a floor to ceiling height of 8' 81/2". Framing with new 2x6 joists, I lose additional space and it whittles it down to 8' 5 3/8". I'm not sure how much of an acoustic difference three inches makes, so I guess that plays into my calculations as well....... Oh so many decisions. :?

Framing with new 2x6 joists, I lose additional space and it whittles it down to 8' 5 3/8".

Unless you build your ceiling "inside-out".... (I seem to be repeating that a lot over the last few days, on several threads! All of a sudden I sound like a commercial for inside-out construction!) Seriously, if you build it inside out, then the drywall goes on TOP of the joists, but underneath them, so you have the entire space between the joists for acoustic treatment. You can get the sheetrock up real close to the "outer" joists, probably just as close as with RC. I don't think you need to lose any ceiling height at all, if you do it inside-out.... - Stuart -

Stuart, Any examples in the forum of folks who used the inside-out method successfully? Its definitly intriguing....thanks for the heads up! Jon

Greeting Jon, Hope this finds you well. This is not a build but some information on inside out construction. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=566&start=0 Stay Gold, Ken Hamilton

Thanks for the info on the "inside out" method.....so much to learn! Holy crap. Alright...another question...I guess I have millions. I have decided (I think) to use a 2nd set of joists to create a 2nd ceiling in the control room (where I'll spend 90% of the time) and RC-2 channel for the tracking room/vox booth. I know thats not as effective, but I'll just tell everyone in the house to be quieter ;-). Sooooooooo I using those methods I understand how to create the first leaf. The 2nd leaf becomes the floor above (reinforced with gypsum to increase mass). So...does the outer leaf need to be sealed up to the ceiling? I am going to use double framing on the walls. Since the outer framed wall is perpendicular to the joists, I'm not sure how to seal all the way up to the deck above. I have rod's book, and I didn't notice where that might be mentioned.... hmmm....thoughts? Thanks again for all the help! Jon PS there's like 1000 studio design threads and about 50 or so designed studios on here. That scares me a little! haha