Help on planning

Hi there, my name is Árni and I live in iceland. I've recently got a room that I intend to use as a control room for my studio projects. It's on the 3rd floor in an old building built from concrete. On the same floor that my room there is a band rehersal space that is rented out to local bands and I intend to use for a live room. The room I have is 6M long, 3.4M wide and the ceiling is 3.2M from the floor. The Right and the back wall are made of concrete, the left side wall is I think brick wall, but in a part it is wood (not sure what kind of wood) (this can all be seen in the SketchUp I'm including) The right wall has some windows and radiators and the front wall has a door in the middle. Sound leakage in or out of the room is of no importance! There's nothing that I will disturb around me. This building used to be and old school, so the ceiling and the topmost part of the walls have some kind of foamy stuff on it (witch I'm guessing was to reduce sound from students to bring down the noise in the room) so the ceiling isn't my number one concern. Floor is vinyl, but I have some carpet that I could put over the entire floor. Someone might say "that table is going to kill you sound-wise" and I know that, It's just such a nice table that I'd rather not lose it (I've been thinking about putting dense carpet on the top of the table) I don't have any other room to store my stuff, So I'll need to keep at least one of the closets I've got in there for mics, cables and stuff like that (Altough I'm only using one of the closets,I figured it would be better to keep both closets, symmetry wise) I was maybe planning on putting a few guitar-wall hangars on the right wall. I had 4 office spacers that I threw in there, thinking maybe they would be better than nothing. The monitors are M-Audio BX8a, and they are standing on concrete tubes, used in drains and sewers. I need to keep the sofa for bands and guests, but I can get another one just like it, and maybe put one against each wall, left and right (to keep symmetry) So my question is... What do you suggest doing about acoustics in the room. Since I don't own the place, I'm not going to build something that I can't take down and move with me. I was told by a friend that bass traps on in the corners of the back wall and some absorbers at the.. what's it called.. the first point where the sound coming from the monitors hits the walls (early reflection point ?). I'm not a professional, this is first and foremost a hobby, and I've mostly been recording local garage bands (age 15-25) so my budget isn't huge, I've been charging 2000 icelandic kronur (that would be about $20) and my monthly pay from work is about 100.000-130.000 kr (about $1000) but those things will cost, and I am aware of that. How should I be arranging everything in my room, to get the best results before doing any work with absorbers, bass traps and such things. In the SketchUp file I've included the furnitures I currently have (office spacer, closet, sofa, table I've got under my rack, computer table (the column attached to the computer table is where my head would be when sitting by the table) The gray part of the walls is where the foam part is, and the brown represents wooden walls.

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Hi Árni, and welcome! A couple of non-expert comments from me (the non-expert): To me, it looks like you have the right idea, basically, with your layout. You have the speakers firing down the long axis, you have symmetry, etc. However, you might want to re-position your speakers, since they seem to be at a distance from the front wall where you are going to be getting things like cancellation, comb filtering, and that kind of fun stuff. Search the forum for "speaker position", and you should find plenty of information on how to find the ritgh palce for your speakers. You say that your speakers are sitting on top of concrete pipes? Are those pipes hollow, or did you fill them with something, such as dry sand? The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if those pipes won't be resonating a bit, and maybe doing strange things to the sound in the room? As far as I know, concrete is good for speaker stands, but they should not be hollow. Maybe one of the speaker or acoustic experts can comment on that. Regarding the acoustic tile ceiling: My guess is that it is not actually doing very much for you. that kind of tile is not meant to deal with high levels of music in a studio. It is really meant to help a bit with normal office and classroom type noise. So you might want to consider putting a "cloud" roughly above your mix position. But beware: you probably cannot hang it from the same frame as the acoustic tile, since those frames are not very strong. You might need to figure out another way of keeping your cloud up there, so it doesn't fall on your head!

Someone might say "that table is going to kill you sound-wise" and I know that,

Yep! You are going to get reflections off that, by the looks of it.

It's just such a nice table that I'd rather not lose it (I've been thinking about putting dense carpet on the top of the table)

I'm not sure that carpet will do the job. I agree that its a great table, cool design, etc., but I don't think it is helping your acoustics at all! And I don't think that carpet will fix it (it might also look strange with carpet on it!)

I was told by a friend that bass traps on in the corners of the back wall

Yep. Those back corners, on each side of the door, are just begging to have big bass traps built in there! Search the forum for "corner bass trap", and you'll find plenty of ideas on how you can build them yourself, at low cost. But don't stop there, eith just the back corners. There are 12 corners in a room ,not just two, so you should also think about treating some of the others. You need lots of bass trapping. You might want to at least do the front corners, behind the speakers. And maybe the wall/ceiling corner above that door would be another good place. Make them big.

and some absorbers at the.. what's it called.. the first point where the sound coming from the monitors hits the walls (early reflection point ?)

Again: "Yep". You do need absorption on your first reflection points, and that includes the ceiling (which is why yo need the cloud up there). Once again, using the "search" button for "reflection point", and you'll find more than enough stuff to keep you reading for hours. - Stuart -

Greetings Addni: I had a question / 's for you, if I may ask; What kind of desk is that? brand? size? material? What do the button's operate on the side? and is that a power outlet on the other side? Did you add the button's and or outlet? I found the desk to be very nice and I just had to ask. Thank You for sharing your pictures and giving us a look at your very nice space. I hope you can get your question's answered by one of the more informed on this forum. Again, Very nice space. Thanks Again, Stay Gold, Ken Hamilton

To Axiom Studio: A friend of mine built it :) It fitted corner to corner in the room he had, and was designed to keep the speakers on the table (hence the size) It's made with two MDF's with IKEA table legs (if you want I could give you more details about it) and theres a "whole" on the front (where the keyboard) that perfectly fits a 17" PowerBook and... has air cooling ! There are holes at the back and side of the port, that put cold air into the air-intake of his Powerbook, that's the usage of the four little round buttons. There are holes for every cable that could come into the powerbook (firewire, usb, power, network and external monitor) and there are also holes in the table that were behind the monitors when he had them on the table Yes, those are two power outlets to the left hans side, one i use for my laptop(i really suggest it for people who use laptops) and I use the other for my cell phone charger, an external hard drive that somebody brings in or a power supply for a keyboard. The four buttons on the right are not connected yet. But they are supposed to be 1: Monitor Power 2: Air Cooling Power (altough I don't use it, the ligts on the buttons are cool :P) 3: Rack Power (but maybe I wont becouse of risk that someone accidentally hits it during a session) 4: An outlet under the table for other stuff, say amps or stuff so, there are plans for an awful lot of power under the table (well.. I am an electrician) To Soundman2020: Thanks for your reply, Maybe I should have mentioned what my friend (btw. he's a Pro engineer, and has done acoustics with a few spaces) said when he came over. I told him I was trying to do as little as I could for starters, and he said nr. 1: a corner trap behind the speakers and the early reflection points. The corners on the wall with the door would also not be my nr. one concern. He said the ceiling wouldn't be much of a problem, and shouldn't be much of a priority, since I'm not trying to make the room perfect, only better. The first step: Traps behind speakers, Early reflections by monitors (one each side), then if I'd have any small pieces of fiberglass insulation left to put it on the floor/wall corners behind the table, maybe get an indian rug or something like that under my chair and try to do something about the table. Since I really rather not replace it he suggested that putting a thick carpet would be better than nothing. I was thinking about putting hardwood underlay (like the one seen here) http://www.orientalrug.com/ebaypics/SquidooRugPad.jpg and then some carpet over that. (can anyone tell me something about that) Second step: Door-wall traps, two more absorbers (between the windows and one on the other side) and maybe some more absorbers on the wall behind the table Third step: absorber above the door, more absorbers around the speakers, and then maybe a cloud. Yes, the speakers aren't actually in their final position, so you would move them more into the corner or what ? How far from the walls should they be for best results ? Yes, the concrete tubes are hollow, I've been thinking about that, but getting sand in there would be so messy and such a pain in the ass, but that's something I've been keeping in mind (but then I'd have to close them, and they would become a lot heavier.. and believe me they are not that easy to carrie as it is. The type of bass trap he suggested would be a dense fibreglass stacked upp (so i buy one unit that is 60x120cm and cut it into triangles that would be 60x60x84 (thereby getting 4 triangles out of every unit) and stack them up (so if the units are 5cm thick i would need 64 triangles to get from floor to bottom (320cm),so I would need 16 units for each corner) talking about that, fibreglass density is measured in kg/m3 (kilograms per cubic meter), well at least in my local factory, what density would be best suited for corner bass traps ? (I'm guessing denser = more expensive) Funny thing my friend said when i told him I was going to ask you guys on this forums, he said "they will probably tell you to to basicly what I told you.. but a lot more"

To Axiom Studio: A friend of mine built it :) It fitted corner to corner in the room he had, and was designed to keep the speakers on the table (hence the size) It's made with two MDF's with IKEA table legs (if you want I could give you more details about it) and theres a "whole" on the front (where the keyboard) that perfectly fits a 17" PowerBook and... has air cooling ! There are holes at the back and side of the port, that put cold air into the air-intake of his Powerbook, that's the usage of the four little round buttons. There are holes for every cable that could come into the powerbook (firewire, usb, power, network and external monitor) and there are also holes in the table that were behind the monitors when he had them on the table Yes, those are two power outlets to the left hans side, one i use for my laptop(i really suggest it for people who use laptops) and I use the other for my cell phone charger, an external hard drive that somebody brings in or a power supply for a keyboard. The four buttons on the right are not connected yet. But they are supposed to be 1: Monitor Power 2: Air Cooling Power (altough I don't use it, the ligts on the buttons are cool :P) 3: Rack Power (but maybe I wont becouse of risk that someone accidentally hits it during a session) 4: An outlet under the table for other stuff, say amps or stuff so, there are plans for an awful lot of power under the table (well.. I am an electrician) To Soundman2020: Thanks for your reply, Maybe I should have mentioned what my friend (btw. he's a Pro engineer, and has done acoustics with a few spaces) said when he came over. I told him I was trying to do as little as I could for starters, and he said nr. 1: a corner trap behind the speakers and the early reflection points. The corners on the wall with the door would also not be my nr. one concern. He said the ceiling wouldn't be much of a problem, and shouldn't be much of a priority, since I'm not trying to make the room perfect, only better. The first step: Traps behind speakers, Early reflections by monitors (one each side), then if I'd have any small pieces of fiberglass insulation left to put it on the floor/wall corners behind the table, maybe get an indian rug or something like that under my chair and try to do something about the table. Since I really rather not replace it he suggested that putting a thick carpet would be better than nothing. I was thinking about putting hardwood underlay (like the one seen here) http://www.orientalrug.com/ebaypics/SquidooRugPad.jpg and then some carpet over that. (can anyone tell me something about that) Second step: Door-wall traps, two more absorbers (between the windows and one on the other side) and maybe some more absorbers on the wall behind the table Third step: absorber above the door, more absorbers around the speakers, and then maybe a cloud. Yes, the speakers aren't actually in their final position, so you would move them more into the corner or what ? How far from the walls should they be for best results ? Yes, the concrete tubes are hollow, I've been thinking about that, but getting sand in there would be so messy and such a pain in the ass, but that's something I've been keeping in mind (but then I'd have to close them, and they would become a lot heavier.. and believe me they are not that easy to carrie as it is. The type of bass trap he suggested would be a dense fibreglass stacked upp (so i buy one unit that is 60x120cm and cut it into triangles that would be 60x60x84 (thereby getting 4 triangles out of every unit) and stack them up (so if the units are 5cm thick i would need 64 triangles to get from floor to bottom (320cm),so I would need 16 units for each corner) talking about that, fibreglass density is measured in kg/m3 (kilograms per cubic meter), well at least in my local factory, what density would be best suited for corner bass traps ? (I'm guessing denser = more expensive) Funny thing my friend said when i told him I was going to ask you guys on this forums, he said "they will probably tell you to to basicly what I told you.. but a lot more"

The corners on the wall with the door would also not be my nr. one concern.

Well, I think I'd do at least some absorption and bass trapping back there, so you don't have stuff coming back at your ears from behind.

He said the ceiling wouldn't be much of a problem, and shouldn't be much of a priority, since I'm not trying to make the room perfect, only better.

If you are on tight budget, then yeah: Acoustic tiles are better than nothing at all . . . by a slim margin! :)

The first step: Traps behind speakers, Early reflections by monitors (one each side),

Sounds like a good place to start.

about the table. Since I really rather not replace it he suggested that putting a thick carpet would be better than nothing.

Once again, it's a bit better than nothing at all... but carpet will only deal with the upper end of the spectrum: Mids and lows will still go right through.

Yes, the concrete tubes are hollow, I've been thinking about that, but getting sand in there would be so messy and such a pain in the ass, but that's something I've been keeping in mind

Well, maybe just filling them with rock wool would help, at least a little. It won't stop them singing, of course, but it should help to damp the resonance a bit.

The type of bass trap he suggested would be a dense fibreglass stacked upp (so i buy one unit that is 60x120cm and cut it into triangles that would be 60x60x84 (thereby getting 4 triangles out of every unit) and stack them up (so if the units are 5cm thick i would need 64 triangles to get from floor to bottom (320cm),so I would need 16 units for each corner)

Yep, that's basically a "superchunk" bass trap. Search the forum for "superchunk" and you'll get plenty of ideas on how to build them and located them and cover them.

fibreglass density is measured in kg/m3 (kilograms per cubic meter), well at least in my local factory, what density would be best suited for corner bass traps ? (I'm guessing denser = more expensive)

I think the recommendation is for about 48 kg/m3 if I recall correctly. But you can search the forum for that too. You don't need the expensive stuff: it won't give you much worthwhile benefit, and you are on a tight budget.

Funny thing my friend said when i told him I was going to ask you guys on this forums, he said "they will probably tell you to to basicly what I told you.. but a lot more"

Yup, that's for sure! You certainly do want more bass trapping, to start with!

Thanks for that soundman so would the first piece of this page be what I'm looking for ? http://www.steinull.is/Files/Skra_0009991.pdf It's 50kg/m3 and is available in 5 different thicknesses. So he suggested two superchunks in the corners behind the speaker.. Superchunks take a loot of material, so maybe I should make a bit cheaper bass traps, and put more of them ?