!Help! with layout for 13'x26' open space

I am currently recording out of my living room with the help of some attic space that I converted into an isolation booth. I have a neighbor that lives downstairs and there is another house within 8 ft of my house, so the knocks at the door never stop. I have been recording music for a few years now with this setup but now I am on to bigger and better. I do a little pre/post production work as well. I mainly record drums, guitars, vocalist, but I get different projects from time to time. Most of the music I work with is R&B, jazz, hip hop, and techno. THE SPACE I have recently acquired some space in a building move my recording studio. I really have no requirements that I have to follow other than building code, but I have that all covered. I can build whatever, however, whenever, as long as I stay in my space. I have done the demolition of this area leaving myself with open floor space that measures 13’x26’. I am looking forward to construction but I am bogged down with planning. I’m talking the most time with this part because I can’t afford to lose the time or money while moving with no method to my madness. I’m looking to divide this space into two rooms, one for a control room (pre/post production), and the other for tracking (live room/ vocal booth). The floor consists of two layers of 3/4” wood topped with a layer of 1/2” MDF all sitting on 2x10 floor joist. I can hear noise from the basement when people are down there working. The height is 9’7” to the bottom of the gutted ceiling, which exposes 2x4 joist that span the length of the room at 16 inches on center. All walls were removed during the demolition phase. The HVAC and electrical have also been moved for this project. The floor space sits in the rear corner of a building so two of the walls are exterior and are cinder block. Both of those walls also have stuccoed panels furred out on 2x4’s on their exterior sides. The rear of the building also faces an alley. I’m not trying to knock blocks off of the building but I don’t want to hear “turn it down either”. Isolation is high on the list. I plan on taking on more than when I was in my living room and I want to have the capacity to get things done. I was thinking double wall, steel studs, insulation, RC, 2 layers 5/8” drywall would be the way I would have to go but I didn’t want to overkill it either. I have also been wrestling with the idea of floating the floor to try to reduce the transmission of sound through the basement level. There is a neighboring business in the same building and we are separated by two rooms. I will reserve one of these rooms for an office This gives me about 25’ with three single stud wood walls with ½” drywall on each side. The ceilings of these rooms however are only drop ceilings at 8’ and sound does still carry quite a bit. I want to keep my sound in and keep the noise out. The space is a tight fit but I can’t complain because it was a gift and for that, I am grateful. I plan to use this space to grow as a producer and engineer through practice, theory, and experience. The projected lifespan of this studio will be 10-20 years. I believe that over time I will be able to gain more space and expand. My construction budget for this project is roughly $5000. This is for materials only. The rest is all sweat equity. I’m going to be doing all of the construction myself. Building is what I do for a living so that is a major plus for me. I’m going to have occasional help but for the most part it’s just going to me and my dog. Can anyone help me design this space? (ratio’s formulas, layouts, ideas, anything) I have attatched the jpeg and the .skp file White = studio space Yellow = Lobby Green = Hallway Blue = Office (possibly shared) Red = Bathroom Black = Off limitis I need help!!!!!

yo, The floor sounds like it will need some work. Might have to pull up 1 or 2 of the layers and start again. how's this design? The ratio isn't correct. I don't work well in feet and inches sorry

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"The floor consists of two layers of 3/4” wood topped with a layer of 1/2” MDF all sitting on 2x10 floor joist. I can hear noise from the basement when people are down there working. " What kind of shape is the ceiling below, in the basement, in? Could you get access to modify the below area ceiling, maybe adding a layer or more of X rock and insulation? Where is the outside of the building in relation to your sketch-up diagram?

First and foremost, thank you both lilith_envy and xSpace for the interest in my project. I am so eager to get this build started. I have acquired more space that might be able to help for my design. I can use about the last 6’ in the hallway because it is dead space. I have to leave decent room around the door that leads into the blue area.

yo, The floor sounds like it will need some work. Might have to pull up 1 or 2 of the layers and start again. how's this design? The ratio isn't correct. I don't work well in feet and inches sorry

lilith_envy I like the design. I was able to negotiate some dead space at the end of the hallway and was wondering if my new plan was a good idea or not. I think that the control room in your design colud be scaled to fit my area. I also hope that I can get away without tearing up any of the existing floor.

What kind of shape is the ceiling below, in the basement, in? Could you get access to modify the below area ceiling, maybe adding a layer or more of X rock and insulation?

xSpace The floor in the basement was ruled hands off because of utility access. I can however do anything to the floor above. The rear wall that sits on an alley is the wall that borders the main room and the control room. The other exterior wall borders the main room and the iso booth. This wall is 10' from the curb of a street that recieves moderate traffic all day. The walls are in my skp file along with the ceiling joist and I beams but I have them hidden. I was wondering would it be a good idea to try to raise the floor and add protection since I have the head room or even floating the floor/room. I was also thinking that I could use this space for audio cables so that I could keep them far from the electrical. Current Direction I used the L.W. Sepmeyer ratio of 1.00, 1.14, 1.39 to come up with 8’9”, 10’, 12’2’’. Using that room size, I can fit two of those into the space that I currently have and if I turned one sideways I would also have room for an isolation booth given my newly acquired space. The boxes represent the interior volume. Given the way that the yellow area is used for storage it wouldn’t be possible for me to have a door on this side of the room. The optimal place for control room entry is from the green hallway area. I will actually have to rebuild a wall and door that sections off the yellow room because i pulled it out to do my build. I also posted and updated skp file with corrected measuement. Questions 1. What do you think would be best for the floor and would my idea work? 2. Does the L.W. Sepmeyer ratio need to be applied to my tracking room ? 3. How does the proposed plan look? Could I do it more efficiently? And of course any other suggestions

. . .Still pushing So as it stands i have come up with a very basic design for my control room and i am looking for some input. The plan is for my current design. I am planning to go ahead with current layout of the propossed rooms. I didn't want to go too far with the sketchup and the decide to change it all so it is just basic at this point. It seems to take me a while to get these things right on the computer as i am still bumping my head with sketchup, so as i lock in decisions they will become apart of my drawings. I am trying to lock in a design for the tracking room but i had a few questions before i continue. This is the control room design This is the control room again in the layout 1. Are angled walls necessary for the tracking room? 2. Is it a good idea to apply a ratiio to the tracking room too? (i started with one) 3. Is there anything that needs improving in my current control room plans? Suggestions and input are always welcome

"1. Are angled walls necessary for the tracking room? 2. Is it a good idea to apply a ratiio to the tracking room too? " Non parallel is what is suggested. Yes, I would take the time to develop a room based on known ratios. I would do that rather than marking off walls and calling it good ;)

Sorry I guess i should have been a little more detailed. This design is kid of my interpretation of what i gathered herer from the site. I didn't include any deminsions but the interior of the room itself measures 8'9"x10'x12'2 (h x w x l) from drywall to drywall and comes from the L.W. Sepmeyer ratio of 1.00, 1.14, 1.39. The angle on the monitors are 30 degrees each pointed just behind the head in the picture. The side treatments are angled 6 degrees and so is the wall where the sliding glass doors are proposed. The lines in the diagram are all true to scale. Like i was saying before, this is my basic plan, it is going to grow as it becomes more concrete. I am staring with my interior deminsions and working in reverse to get my proper exterior deminsions in preparation fo framing. I am a builder and do this out of habit. The lines will come to life :)

Didn't you just post this: "1. Are angled walls necessary for the tracking room? 2. Is it a good idea to apply a ratiio to the tracking room too? (i started with one) 3. Is there anything that needs improving in my current control room plans? Suggestions and input are always welcome" That is what I replied to? Are they just notes to yourself?

Sorry I get a little repetitive sometimes but I thuoght that you were questioning the basis of the lines in the control room but that was a simple misunderstanding on my part. I am really just looking for some clarity on the tracking room. My thought process in leading me towards a rectangular room that fits a given ratio with angled treatments to perpetuate the angled walls. The reason I asked about the walls was becasue I didn't know if it would be better to go with angled walls and flat teatments. - Just a little confused Suggestions and input are always welcome.

ARecording wrote:

The reason I asked about the walls was becasue I didn't know if it would be better to go with angled walls and flat teatments.

The search function is your friend. One that started with ceilings is this one. Andre

I have been working with my layout and basically have come down to two designs. 1 and 1a My design (Floorplan1) was along my original lines of thinking. I would have a control room and tracking room that both were based on a given ratio and an iso booth. After looking at the drawing i came up with another configuation (Floorplan1a) for the live room but it just happens to make the room square for to most part. I like the idea of having the additional space in the tracking room but aside from abandoning my ratio, the room being so close to a square is also troubling me Another benifit from the design is that i could angle the door in the iso booth. If i decided to install a door with some sort of window i could establish a visual with the iso booth as well. I would also sacrifice a small sitting space in the hallway but that really isn't that important because i have access to a community lobby. 1. Will the extra space turn this room into acoustical disaster? I aslo have a concern in my control room setup. This is independent from the tracking room. From everything i have read i understand that symetry is best in control room setups. If that is correct then I question my acoustic treatments opposite the sliding glass doors. I am planning to build slot resonators in that space on that angle but that is where i am stuck. 2. Do the resonators actually alter the rooms symetry or should i just be concetrating on the walls? 3. If they do alter the rooms symetry would it be a better idea to angle the door to regain symetry or change the proposed treatments?

Anybody . . . It is getting lonely in here. I'm not trying to be pushy at all. I have about 250 metal studs just lying aroung waiting to meet their final resting place. I'm leaning heavity towards the larger tracking room, for the purposes of space only, and really want to get started on the framing. (in the right direction) Suggestions and input are always welcome

1A has a square as the live room so I guess use 1. Maybe change the vocal area, it looks squarish also :)

xSpace wrote:

1A has a square as the live room so I guess use 1. Maybe change the vocal area, it looks squarish also :)

Ok, so trashing 1a and digging into 1 The vocal booth in design 1 actually is a perfect square. It was dead space so i decided to use it. The vocal booth works out to be roughly 5'x5' after rc and drywall. It is already a tight fit and I don't think i can stand to go any smaller. I really don't know what else i could do with that area because i have a limitation with the doorway entering the blue area. I can possibly squeeze another 12 to 18 inches into the hallway giving me a 5'x6' to 5'x6'6" but will this have any noticable improvement in acoustics.

Aloha, Here's a couple of responses I got when exploring vocal booth designs during the build phase:

Be careful, a dead square booth will have low end issues (you'll hear the issues on your mic.)

B. Giles

Yeah, 4x5x7 feet inside dim's is about the best modal compromise for a small booth

- Knightfly Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Kendale......!! Your alive lil

Aloha lil, Hey, yeah, i'm still poking around a bit. :wink: Things have been quite busy over the last few months with work, 2 CD projects and life in general. Hope things are well in your part of the world. Aloha 8)

Hi Kendale - good to see you around mate ;)

Aloha John, Thanks! It's good to see you and the new site up and about. Hope you're recovering well. The new site looks great! :wink: Aloha 8)

Yeah, 4x5x7 feet inside dim's is about the best modal compromise for a small booth

First off let me say thanks Kendale for droping in on my thread I tacked down a link for room modes ( http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm ) but i don't have one clue of what it is that i am actually looking at or supposed to be understanding from this. I would like to keep as much space inside of the vocal booth as possible. I have a max floor space of 5' x 6' and a max height of roughly 9'4". Since I couldn't really understand what I was looking at I punched in a few different configurations and based on the graph and only the graph that is at the bottom of the page I "think" that a room 5' X 6' x 7'6" would work. Can you give me some help or direction as to better understanding these type of calculators???

Aloha, Here's another one you can try from the reference area stickies (includes instructions :wink: ) viewtopic.php?t=643 Aloha 8)

Thanks for the helpful links kendale. 3D thinking can be a bitch some times. Appreciate the effort. W

Steve typed: "I wanted to include an option for those who have no "office suite" on their computer and are saving what money they do have for audio goodies," Another option is finally available: http://www.openoffice.org/ It's hot and it is free! Although free and hot may not be your cup of tea, it is also completely compatible with the Windows Office formats.

I have been working on my design for the control rooom but I have questions about my soffit design. Can this be done inside of 2 layers of 5/8" drywall? If this can be done, should the frames be mounted to the ceiling and floor only? If this can't be done, does that mean I'll have to scratch the RC from the design if I also have to tie the frames into the wall studs? I designing these frames with John's method in mind but I’m not sure if I’m on the right path. Please help!!! Suggestions and input are always welcome.