El Paso Texas Studio Build

Hello i work for an Musicain/Producer as well as an Independent record Label. My Boss wants to build a Studio Build from the Ground up located in El Paso Texas, its a Residential neighborhood situation,so we want to put a recording facility in his backyard behind his house. House is on a 2 acre lot and the backyard is huge. Neighbors are an issue because they are uptight and will report noise complaints or anything else that doesn't look to them. So isolation is gonna be a big issue here, mostly so we can work around the clock and not disturb the neighboring houses. Studio will be near the back of the property, rear property line is right along an irrigation ditch so no neighbors behind us really to worry about too much, but to the right and left of us on both sides we have worries, there are houses on both sides that will be probably within 60 to 80 feet from the building site of the studio. Surely we are completely crazy thinking that we can pull this off? So here we go. Recording Setup is as follows: control room console is SSL 4040 G+, Tannoy system 215DMT monitors on pedestals, several racks of gear, vdrums, keyboards, couch etc. Control room needs to be tight and isolated as we like to cut vocals right in the control room. control room also needs to be large enough to accommodate an 80 channel SSL that is planned for the future Studio will be one large room basically and will be used for tracking bands live and doing all of our overdubs as well as occasional Rehearsals at times. What we want to do with the space is have large setups of several of Guitar amps possibly recording up to 5 or 6 4x12 guitar cabinets simultaneously using a splitter, or several bass cabinets at the same time. also to be used as a large drum room, or for vocals, percussion, piano, also tracking a full band in a live situation as well as strictly overdubbing individual instruments, you name it we will be recording it. for the most part we do alot of metal and rock, so its gonna be loud, i mean really loud. The main studio may double as a rehearsal space for bands to get ready for the major tours, rehearsals would include full stage monitor setup Side fills wedges drum fill and monitor desk and back line setup, drums on a riser, Guitar cabinets, Bass Cabinets, keyboards etc etc. lighting rig, backdrops props etc etc...whatever, the idea is to have a recording facility and also be able to accommodate full dress rehearsal type situation with a full production for a tour. so really the Studio will be a multipurpose place at times but for 90% of the time will be used for recording loud rock bands or other flavors of music. whatever it is used for sound isolation is a must in all cases. Basically this studio will be used for bands that are signed to the label and bands that are being produced by my boss. Currently i am in the process of Researching and Planning, they start demolishing an existing fence and shed and pouring the foundation in a few weeks. I have the basic plan drawn up that my boss has agreed too, so basically i just wanna get some feedback on it and any advice on Sound Isolation for our particular situation, perhaps point out any flaws in my plan as well. How much isolation we need? Alot!! we need to basically be able to work around the clock and be as loud as we want and not disturb anyone else in the neighborhood. It is typical for our recording and mixing sessions to drag on until 3 or 4 am. i would say alot of times we will be making well over 100 db worth of noise. maybe pushing up to 115 or 120 at times in certain situations. Current plan and description of the posted drawing is as follows, i used a free program called Sweet-home 3d to draw this up so its not really to exact scale or anything like that. Concrete Cinderblock walls make up main structure or the outside walls on the drawing will basically be 41 ft wide by 60 ft long, walls will be 12 feet high , not sure yet if they will be filled or not, i was thinking sand or concrete filling for the cavities definitely open to suggestions, and would like to hear how it would effect the isolation if left unfilled. the studio: main recording space will be 38 ft long x 26 ft wide x 16 ft high, Ceiling will be 16 ft high in the center of the room and will splay down to the sides of the room to the side walls which will be 8.5 feet high so basically a 7.5 foot difference from the center of the room to the walls on the side of the room Control Room: 30 ft long x 23 ft wide x 11 ft high. control room ceiling will start at 10 ft in the front of the room and splay up to 12 ft in the back of the room. there will also be a 6 ft by 6 ft machine room for the SSL Power Supply and hard drive storage etc. There will be glass in the control room to look into the studio. Also for cable ducts an impression will be made into the foundation when it is poured for this purpose in the control room and from the control room to the machine room. entry into control room and studio will be from the entry way/sound lock/storage area which is basically storage for mic stands, gobos, gtr cabinets, bass cabinets, gear etc, maybe a coffee maker... definitely a coffee maker as well as the main entry way into the building. i tried to keep the design and layout as basic and as simple as possible. So for isolation basically right now the main structure will be concrete cinderblock, all of the rooms inside will be 2x4 walls with a 6 inch gap between the 2x4 wall and the cinderblock wall, space will be stuffed with insulation, and drywall on the inside of the wall. thus creating the layers of 1 cinderblock 2 gap filled with insulation, gap between the outer wall and inner wall will be approximately 6 inches 3 insulated 2x4 wall with two layers of drywall, drywall will only be on one side of this wall. Floors in the studio and control room will be wood floors, plenty of bass traps and diffusion and absorption panels will be put into use in the control room and studio once construction is complete. Also might put in a few windows in the studio using glass blocks on both the cinderblock wall and the 2x4 wall, so basically each wall would have glass blocks, kinda like double glass for a control room, these windows will be small and just really their to let some natural light in, not for looking out of or anything like that. Budget needs to be reasonable and id like to give out a number, but my boss hasn't really given me a number, really the bottom line is we need to make it isolated enough to not disturb neighbors, so we can work in the manner we are used to working in, so really whatever it takes to do this. If we are restricted to working during certain times of the day and having to turn down our amps, then measures will need to be taken to overcome that, so i figure might as well nip it in the butt from the get go. My Questions Is this enough isolation to keep our high noise levels from disturbing the outside world, will this current plan provide the desired isolation that we seek? if not what kind of changes would be recommended? Will the layers of cinderblock and 2x4 wall create a 3 leaf effect if the cinderblock is not filled and left empty? Will the layers of cinderblock and 2x4 wall create a 3 leaf effect if the cinderblock is filled with concrete or sand? what kind of wall structure system would you recommend to achieve the kind of sound isolation we desire? What is the best insulation to use? Rigid 703 type stuff? or rock wool r38 type stuff? Is it necessary to float the floors to achieve greater isolation to the outside world? how will not floating the floors affect our facility? Will the glass block windows in the studio effect the isolation much? or is this a bad idea? I will start posting pictures and let you know how the project is coming along when they start pouring the slab. Im sure these wont be the last questions that I will have since I know there will be many hurdles to overcome during this process.

You can research around this forum, and you can discover answers to your questions. But for a large, commercial facility like this, I'd strongly consider hiring a studio designer.

jwl wrote:

But for a large, commercial facility like this, I'd strongly consider hiring a studio designer.

yes that was my suggestion as well, but they have decided not to go that route, so being their engineer i have taken it upon myself to make sure the project turns out as best it can if i can help it, since they have declined to seek professional advice.

A few things to consider: -Noise ordinances generally apply to the property line, not adjacent structures. -If the neighbors are uptight then how will they feel about people coming and going, sometimes at late hours? -If the property is zoned residential you are gambling a huge amount of money. -Your isolation goals are lofty. It's difficult enough to have enough isolation for a drum kit, but you are talking about adding a high powered concert monitor system for rehearsals. I'm picturing double 15" side fills and drum fills blaring away inside your room. -You're going to need a mechanical room for HVAC, electrical panel, isolation transformer, etc. -Bathroom?

Can you get a permit to build a 1000 square foot building in the backyard?

yes i realize having a high powered concert system in a backyard is a stretch. and that is a scenario that may or may not ever happen, it really just depends on how it turns out. But a scenario that will definately happen is perhaps 5 4x12 guitar cabinets simultaneously working together at very high volume, that alone right there is extremely loud. and Lots of Drum tracking a s well. dont forget those mammoth Ampeg cabinets we love that are so loud as well. I have a feeling i am in over my head here, but really i tried to convince them the need to get professional help in this but they declined like i said.

But a scenario that will definately happen is perhaps 5 4x12 guitar cabinets simultaneously working together at very high volume, that alone right there is extremely loud. and Lots of Drum tracking a s well. dont forget those mammoth Ampeg cabinets we love that are so loud as well.

To me, it sounds like you are going to have sound pressure levels approaching 120 dB inside your room, and you need to get that down to whatever local bylaws say is the maximum at night in your area. Maybe 40 dB or so, at a rough guess? So in effect you need to kill around 80 dB, and most of that energy is going to be in low bass frequencies? Sounds like a tall order to me. That calls for some SERIOUS mass, and great attention to detail in the design and construction to totally avoid flanking. It is probably do-able, I guess, but not easy, and not cheap. I'm not sure how you can be ready to pour the foundations in a couple of weeks, when it seems that you don't even have a workable plan in place for acoustic isolation yet. Once you pour, you are locked in to that, even if it is dead wrong (unless you plan to get a jack hammer and dig it all out again...). For example, are you going to just pour one big slab, or separate slabs for each room? If separate, have you done the calculations on the dimensions / thickness / mass / rebar of each? How much weight does each slab have to support? How are you going to seal the gaps between the slabs, and still avoid flanking? Does your plan for this meet code? Are you going to float your floor(s)? If so have you done the math? Etc. I would seriously consider having another chat with your boss about hiring someone to design it and build it. Your boss obviously doesn't understand the complex issues involved. This isn't just building a shed in the backyard! You are going to spend an awful lot of money to do this anyway, so the cost of hiring a good designer/engineer is not going to break the bank. He'll probably even end up saving you more money than his fee, as compared to doing it wrong yourself, then having to tear it down and do it again . . . I'm not trying to scare you: just pointing out that reality has a nasty habit of whipping around and biting you suddenly, if you are not prepared. Murphy's law rules. - Stuart -

Why on earth would the op need to float a floor on a freshly poured monolith?

Why on earth would the op need to float a floor on a freshly poured monolith?

That's the question, isn't it? That's why I'm asking: to see if he has thought this through, and knows what to do here. To see if he has read over the forum, understands the issues, and has figured out his design. - Stuart -

was not really planning on floating the floor at all, unless someone can argue valid reason to float vs not float, i have read over some things and decided against floating the floor, neither was there a plan to cut the slab or pour separate slabs either

Soundman2020 wrote:

Why on earth would the op need to float a floor on a freshly poured monolith?

That's the question, isn't it? That's why I'm asking: to see if he has thought this through, and knows what to do here. To see if he has read over the forum, understands the issues, and has figured out his design. - Stuart -

Wow, it is a question. but the darn thing is soo far down the post , I just missed it. Anyway, my bad.

johbil wrote:

Will the layers of cinderblock and 2x4 wall create a 3 leaf effect if the cinderblock is not filled and left empty?

No sir.

johbil wrote:

Will the layers of cinderblock and 2x4 wall create a 3 leaf effect if the cinderblock is filled with concrete or sand?

No sir it will not. Assuming that you are saying one block wall. The block is one leaf, filled or unfilled. If I had to hazard a guess it would be due to there not being a contiguous air cavity when a block wall is erected. That and the two opposing sides are short circuited due to the design of the block. It is common here to recommend using dry clean sand to fill block. Better damping of the block if I recall. But your situation may or may not allow this, so that is on you to verify with the locals.