Home Studio Acoustic treatment help Pictures/info inside

Hi, I have visited this forum now and then, checked the 'Read before posting' threads but never posted until now because I didn't really have a music-setup yet. This has now changed, I have kitted up with a Mac Pro, 88 Keys, Adam monitors and software packages I would like to ask help/opinions on how to get the best acoustically out of my home studio. Note that this is not a purpose built environment (I wish it was :); it is a bedroom in an average 3 bedroom detached house (at least no walls in common with neighbours). Also, I have recently sold my house and now I'm renting which means I can't really do much in terms of physical alteration to the room. All I can do is playing around with furniture layout and use velcro to attach acoustic treatment panels to walls/ceiling/furniture... My goal is to create a good monitoring position for producing and mixing music. I'm not doing anything in terms of soundproofing because as mentioned before I'm renting the place. My soundproofing will come down to use an audio level gadget to make sure I don't have the volume set too high and use Headphones in the evening... and the gap between this house and the next house. What I'm asking is help on how to get the most truthful sound out of this room, I have been suggested a set of Auralex stuff (Studiofoam Wedges, Bass Traps, diffusors....) but whatever I use I will need to use the right amount and place in the right places. I have added sketchup pictures below with as much info as I could In terms of material, all furniture is made out of the same material. Some sort of typical MFI (shop) beech style furniture, not real wood but the surface is smooth, slightly glossy therefore I think reflective. It is this type of thing. Sorry I looked but they don't say what the name of the material is: Link to furniture type The item in the link is not the same set I have (discontinued now) but from the picture it looks like the same material. All dimensions are in centimetres Overall the room is 303cm wide x 294cm long x 228cm high (layout as per picture) Walls are simply plastered and painted (no wall paper). I have no way to know if there is any insulation material in there. Picture1

Along Left Wall 1 – Tall CD/DVD piece of furniture: W 20, D 17, H 202 2 – External Brick Wall: Length 294, about 24 cm thick 3 – Double Glazed Window: Length 178, H 104, (94cm from floor, 20 cm from ceiling) 4 – Fabric curtains with cotton underlay. I have actually attached two together so it is two curtains layers and two underlay layers 5 – Drawer: W 47, D 50, H 66 6 – Open front (no doors) bookshelf filed with books and magazines: W 58, D 32, H 123.5 7 – Cabinet with beech effect bottom doors while the doors in the top half are Glass Doors, filled with books and folders mainly: W 76, D 38, H 154 8 – Cardboard but glossy on the outside cd box tower 9 – Personal type of Stereo CD system, square shape thingy 10 – Speakers for Stereo (9). One on each cabinet on each side of the room Bottom Wall 11 – Internal partition wall:6 cm thick 12 – Door, cheap basic door empty in the middle I think: W 76, H 198 13 – Flat screen 26” TV: W 55, H 70 (Height floor to top of TV 138cm) 14 – Small desk workstation: W 83, D 55, H 83 15 – Fake leather office chair: W 46, D 46 Front Wall where all the magic will happen :) 16 – Fake leather chair: W 50, D 50 17 – Cannot see from top down shot (shown in other pictures) but under the desk, (right side) there are a few cardboard boxes with disks, computer spares, cables. 18 – Long desk, this is two desk one next to each other to form long workstation surface: Length 273, D 75, H 74 19 – Desk Shelf: Length 245, D 29.5, 13 cm gap from desk on which it stands 20 – Another small wooden DVD tower case: it is there for now but can be moved. An issue could be that this DVD holder is short while the one in the opposite corner is very long therefore breaking simmetry behind monitors? 21 – External Brick Wall: L 303, 24 thick 22 – 2 x 24” flat computer monitors each W 57, H 42 including stand. They area bit angled for now so total length side to side is about 110 cm. Main screen-body stands 10 cm away from wall 23 – Adam A7 nearfield monitors (waiting delivery actually) 24 – Adam Sub 8: Subwoofer 25 – Mac Pro 26 – Fatar VMK 188 plus (picture shows a CME that I modified to fit size of VMK in the 3D model) Right Side Wall 27 – Partition Wall about 6 cm thick. No idea if there is any insulation in there 28 – Floor with short pile (well, almost no pile) carpet with underlay. Carpet and underlay all together about 1cm thick.

More pics

Exposed Plain Walls Add foam wedges: - on the door? - above TV screen? - Hopefully I should have space for bass traps in the top corners - am I use a foam panel to just put in front of that TV when my wife is not using her computer

Exposed plain walls behind Nearfield Monitors Shall I put foam just behind monitors up to head height or cover most of the wall? maybe 70% of it. The Adams will be resting on Mo Pads (auralex) or similar. Do I need to use some sort of pad under the Subwoofer under the desk?

Exposed plain wall on the wall to the right I can try the mirror trick but mid you, it is a small room so covering the main area of that plain wall should do The opposite wall has window with curtains... maybe place a loose phoam panel between glass and curtain?

Furniture issues? The top half of those two cabinets have glass doors. Maybe add some foam in front of the glass?

Sound waves - Modes - Diffusion. I did read about modes, standing waves... and I tried some free calculator online.. but I am not sure that's helpful because I have furniture on the walls which will surely have an effect on waves bouncing off. Now, having books in the pen bookshelves andadding a diffusor or studiofoam to those glass doors would it be enough to well reduce problems with cancellation or summing? Should I add some foam to the desk in front of the Speakers, maybe onthe body of the 88 keys? I will put some wedge of the listening position. Shall I use diffusors over my head as well? Or maybe just on the back wall? I am interested in the opinion that comes with experience because I can read as much as I can about acoustics but each room is unique and an experienced eye will be able to read the room and know what/where to put stuff Thank you for any help you can give Hokuto

"Joined: 01 Jan 1970" Far out, you joined the website before it was even started!!! How DID you do that :) John...how DID he do that?

prolly registered within the last days and the computer clock of the new server is running off time or sumpfn' . It is funny tho :) But uhm, about the furniture. You'll get early reflections of the cabinets if you don't hang, atleast, absorbing panels there.

I wasn't even born yet in 1970! :D Maybe my father knew... so he signed me up early :)

Thats what Dads do!

Any more suggestions, recommendation, hints on the acoustic treatment for this room?

What you have is, unfortunately, a small square room. It is almost cubed, which is even more so not desirable. Best thing I could suggest is too take everything out but the very basic items needed to work in this room. A chair, desk and that would be about it. Bass traps in all corners and go from there. Due to the size of this room, you may find your ears get located in the center of it. For that reason I would also place an absorptive panel on the two walls that are to the left and right of my ears.

Yes, the square shape scared me from the beginning but sadly for me until I move house this is the only room I can use. Also I'm stuck in there with all the furniture, I can't take that out, no other place to put it, even the garage is full :) So, yes I am in a crap spot. What I will try to do is: - use absorbing panels on the wall behind the speakers - absorbing panels on the walls to my left and right. Well to my left it will be panels behind curtains. - panels on the back wall and door - a temp panel to place in front of the flat TV at the back - Bass traps in the corners (may only have space for one in each corner) - Maybe more bass traps horizontally where wall meets ceiling front and back wall-ceiling - A few absorbing panels on the sides and front of those bookshelves/cabinets to try and attenuate reflection/bouncing from there - I will place speaker isolators under the spakers - place an isolator pad under the subwoofer as well - Panels on the ceiilng on top of my head. - maybe diffusors over my head? Or side walls? Or back walls? (Not sure what the best place for diffusors would be in this squary little room - Of course I'll have to learn to make the best of a good set of headphones :) K701 or K702 Am I going the wrong way? (considering I can't change room and I can't take furniture out) Thanks guys

Hi guys, I got rid of those CD towers from the room corners and the personal stereo/speakers from the top of the cabinets. This gives me better space to place Bass Traps and renders the A7 Montiors position more simmetric I now have enough space to place one bass trap in each of the back-corners (on top of cabinets) and 2 Bass Traps in each of the front corners (left and right of front wall. Questions :) 1) I have 8 bass traps, placing 6 as described leaves me with 2 more I can use. Where would be the best place, - horizontally ceiling-wall both at the back wall? - horizontally ceiling-wall one on each side wall? - horizontally ceilng-wall front wall? - vertically on the floor corners under the desk? I know I need to try different places and see what sounds best, but you may know something I don't and have a suggested position I should try first. 2) I have some diffusor panel. In such a boxy room, it there a recommended place I should try? - ceiling over sweet spot - side walls somewhere? - front wall? - don't use them? Thank you for your help

I'd use the wall/ceiling corners so they won't take up precious space. How big is the room? diffusors don't work very well in small rooms.

hi Ro The room is 303cm wide x 294cm long x 228cm high not big and almost square

well, there's your answer already. You can do without the diffusers and use as much basstrapping as you can spare. Also use a couple of side panels for your first monitor reflections positions. A backwall absorber (opposite of the room from where ye mons are situated) might also be something to consider. The problem with tiny rooms like that is reflections, they dance around the room like Bambi on acid. Absorbing them is the best way. Diffusing them, in a small room, will not do the trick I'm afraid. Check Ethan's site for more goods on absorption techniques

Hi Ro, thanks for your reply. Check Ethan's site? I’ll do a search for it. Yes I was a bit worried about the diffusers, also because they are big, not a good fit for this room, ok. I was playing around with Studiofoam panels last night before fixing them properly (not fixed yet) and I have enough to cover much of the plain wall/surfaces. I am planning to place (I will add a picture of what I'm thinking to do ASAP) studiofoam panels like this (panels are 60cx60cm 2" thick wedgies): 8 Bass Traps (60cx60cm 2" thick wedgies) A – 4 Bass Traps placed vertically, 2 traps on each of the front corners (front corners left and right of A7s) B - 2 Bass Traps, 1 trap vertically in each back corner C - I have 2 more Bass traps to place up horizontally (ceiling-wall junction as suggested by Ro). Not sure yet where I am going to put these ones yet (front wall, back wall, one each side wall or one back one front wall) I guess I’ll try and hear. 8 Panels (60cx60cm 2" thick wedgies) D - 6 Panels on the wall behind the 2 screens (front wall) E - 2 Panels on the same wall, one behind each A7 monitor. (A and B would leave no space for any more panels 6 Panels (60cx60cm 2" thick wedgies) –3 panels per each side wall F – 1 Panel half folded at 90degrees (creating L shape) and placed to hopefully help against reflections from side wall of bookshelves (I need to add a picture here to explain really) G – 2 Panels to treat the L shaped bare wall area on each side-wall. Area between front desk and side bookshelves (Left wall I will PIN the panels to the curtains.. Bad idea?). 4 Panels to treat back wall H – 2 panels to cove room door (maybe 2 thirds top area of door and a bit of wall on top of door) I – 2 panels to cover bare wall behind and on top of TV screen 1 Panels to treat TV screen behind monitoring sweet spot L – 1 panel I will simply place over the TV screen when I am making music (when my wife is not using her PC/TV screen ). This should somehow help against sound reflecting off the flat TV screen 4 Panels to build over head Ceiling Section M - I will use mirrors from sitting position to see where on the ceiling to put the panels). 1 Panels Left to use (Total of 24 panels) I may use this to improve ceiling area treatment. Maybe cut in half and place each half in front of the glass doors of each cabinet at the back of the side wall? Or maybe place over the panels on the back wall to make that absorbing area thicker? About clapping hands :) Last night I was a bit perplexed because after placing (temporarily) a few panels around I could hear a strong reverberation after clapping my hands in the area close to the left side wall (window wall). The other wall was fine… I thought maybe it was the window because the other wall has no window. Then I placed a couple of Panels to cover the bare wall area on the back wall (above TV) and wow! The reverberation vanished! I felt much better after that  I'm going to use Velcro Straps for the Bass Traps and tiny clothes nails for the Panels... I'll let you know how/if they hold up. Thank you

Hokuto wrote:

I have 8 bass traps, placing 6 as described leaves me with 2 more I can use. Where would be the best place

The only way to know for sure is to measure the room response as you try different places. There are too many variables to be able to compute this in advance reliably. However, there's a trick you can use to find where bass traps are likely to work best, described in detail here: Pink noise aids placing bass traps --Ethan

Hi, Thank you Ethan. I'll use that pink noise, my ears and the SPL meter on my iPhone to try and make best use of what I have. Cheers!

Hokuto wrote:

I'll use that pink noise, my ears and the SPL meter on my iPhone to try and make best use of what I have.

Be careful relying too much on ears, at least with music, because the key of a song interacts with room modes. This is why measuring is always best. --Ethan

Hi yes, I'm using your Pink Noise audio track instead music and checking sound levels at 1 Hz. Actually there is one corner in particular that is worst than the other 3. This was using a SUB from a personal computer speakers setup (not the one I'll be monitoring with). But I should receive my Sub 8 (Adam) tomorrow so I will refrain from placing the remaining 4 bass traps until I have my A7 and Sub 8 setup and check the room with this setup. Sadly the audio hardware monitor controller won't be here until next week which will delay things a bit unless I have some cable I can use temporarily. Could I ask you something? At the moment, trying to get a decent compromise between A7 nearfield position, angle, distance, etc... I have the A7s standing on that kind of hard polyester/foam/whiteStuff/hardishButaBitSoft... material. This is made of blocks I got from the Studiologic VMK 188 + box. Yes the protective white stuff they use to pack things. So these are my speaker stands. On top of this white stuff I have placed Auralex MoPads and the A7s stand on top of the MoPads. Do you think this is ok? I know usually one would tend to have solid speaker stands and I'm thinking Atacama SL 200 http://www.atacama-audio.co.uk/slseries.htm Because they are 20cm tall (not too high) and I can place them over my desk then hopefully place MoPads on them. But on the other side, maybe that white packaging stuff helps to isolate A7 from the desk and with MoPads maybe it is not such a bad idea? What do you (and anyone else) think? Thanks

Hi guys, thank you for your help so far. I did go through Ethan site the other week, I didn't realise it was the same site Ro was suggesting. I went through anything I could find before even using sketch up and my next battle will be to place the Subwoofer. I will be putting in practie suggestions from Ethan site and other suggestions from other places like SoundOnSound articles etc... BUT Before I get busy with the Sub around the room (my subwoofer will be sitting on top of a Sub Isolator Base, hopefully it will help) here are some photos of the monstrosity I have created so far. DIY was not an option so I had to go for already made panels (I can do DIY but all my tools are in storage and not accessible at this stage) Here we go: FRONT LEFT CORNER