John Sayers’ Recording Studio Design ForumAn archive of johnlsayers.com, 2003–2022

I need help w/ my basement floor! Not floating.....

Started by Isle of Weight on 14 October 2008. 13 replies. In the Library under Walls, floors and ceilings.

Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 11303.

Isle of Weight
Hi everyone, I'm about to start on my floors in my basement studio build. and I'm very interested in getting the floor off the cement, but I am not interested in building a floating floor since everything I read about floating floors here on this site says its not necessary/negative for a cement slab. So.... I was reading this tread http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ing+floors here's a quote for Rod
rod gervais wrote:
CaptainTaco wrote:
forgive me, I did do a search for floating floors, but what it brought up were mostly finished floating floors, in which the threads don't really answer my questions. Again, ok I get it, even close to the floor the flooring will still act as drum heads. But please, just answer two questions. 1. If there is enough insulation between the flooring plywood, and the cement will this cancel the effect of the "drum head floor"? and 2. If I were to lay the plywood directly down on the cement, would this yield acceptable results? anything to insulate the room from the cement a little, to take the cold out of the picture during the winter. Plus I could then layer the plywood with hardwood. Would that work?
Actually, If you want to take the cold out - you could apply a rigid high density styrofoam sheet (say 1.5" Dow Board- T&G) directly to the concrete - and then install 3/4" T&G plywood above that (assuming that you first applied something like 1" of GYP-CRETE self leveling topping to get yourself out of the problems you have with the uneven existing floor) - above a good quality sealer - then attach the plywood through the insulation directly to the concrete using TAPCON concrete screws. This would give you the comfort while maintaining the floor as a single leaf. That would be about an R-7 insulation between you and the concrete deck - plus jst a touch of spongyness so it was easier on your feet. Sincerely, Rod
what I was interested in doing was trying this platon flooring system, http://www.systemplaton.com/flooring.html and securing it to the slab then using one or two sheets of OSB, padding then laminte. please help and thanks for your time Aaron
Isle of Weight
no responses yet :cry: it seems like I would maintain a single leaf system if I'm securing this dry system directly to the concert with tapcon screws through plywood or osb. here's a similar product http://www.deltafl.com/ what do you guys think??? thanks again AA.
Isle of Weight
:shock: is this a fair assumption????? what do you guys think, am I missing something? Am I an idoit and no one wants to talk to me? hmmmm
Ro
Okay, okay already! :) As I understand your current floor is concrete/cement? (are we talking heavy concrete, light cement.. what?) Adding ANYTHING on a already heavy floor is basically a bad idea. Concrete has mass and is stiff. Getting it to resonate is a tough job to accomplice, and that's good. You want as less resonating stuff in your room as possible. Adding a (floating) floor is mostly gonna introduce resonating panels. If your floor is made out of wood for example. Poring a elevated concrete floor might work in that case. But you're already in the "save zone" with a hard 'n heavy floor, so why bother? But, ofcourse, you want some "comfort" too, right? Adding a laminate or hardwood floor is good for aesthetics and a "warm" feeling :) But there's good options to stain or paint the concrete floor. It's a matter of taste... So, I'd say 'no' to adding anything but a topfloor (laminate or alike). You might wanna attach it to the concrete, sure. I'd use some leveling soft panels instead.
Soundman2020
I'd use some leveling soft panels instead.
What are those, and where do I get them? It sounds like exactly what I need for my floor!
Ro
dunno what you call them in Enlish. ask your floor dealer, it's just standard stuff. I use those "green" boards.
Cram
I think rod's point there is mostly to do with maintaining the floor as one leaf and his suggestion has the top layer being pulled down or attached to the concrete through fastenning screws. What does your floor look like?
Ro
Cram wrote:
I think rod's point there is mostly to do with maintaining the floor as one leaf and his suggestion has the top layer being pulled down or attached to the concrete through fastening screws.
That only works if your floor is 100% level, that's why a stabilizing board or alike is needed. Also keeps it from rattling. You still have a resonating floor tho..
xSpace
Ro wrote:
dunno what you call them in Enlish. ask your floor dealer, it's just standard stuff. I use those "green" boards.
DUROCK cement board?
Ro
nope, that's stiff. It's a vilt/fibre tile, looks like this:
External image, not preserved — original: http://www.viksparket.nl/vilttegel%20groen.jpg
It's soft but not springy. Too stabilize wood floors and keep it from cracking/rattling when walking on it.
xSpace
Felt Paper Underlayment :oops:
Soundman2020
I don't think I can get that stuff here in Chile. I've never seen anything like it. All that they sell here is rolls of thin "spongy" underlay for laminate floors, with foil on one side, but that isn't anything like what you are talking about, and doesn't seem like a good idea acoustically. Would a layer of dry sand be any use for leveling? I'm thinking of building a wooden frame around the edge of the floor area (or maybe just use the sill plates from the walls?), seal the area with polyurethane plastic sheeting, shovel in a layer of dry sand for leveling (maybe an inch or two?), lay 18mm plywood (OSB? MDF?) on top of the sand (bolted to the concrete slab), then lay the laminate floor on top of that. Is that workable? Good idea? Bad idea? Terrible idea? Another idea that some people here have suggested is self-leveling cement, but I'm having a hard time finding a cement supplier here in Chile who can supply that in small quantities (most have never heard of it!). Can I mix it myself? What is it exactly? Is it just a "slushy" mix of normal cement/sand/water, or is there something else in it? I've worked with concrete before, mixing it myself to pour a slab for a shed I built a few years back, so I reckon I could do the job with this self-leveling cement, if only someone would explain how to do it...
Ro
Soundman2020 wrote:
I don't think I can get that stuff here in Chile. I've never seen anything like it. All that they sell here is rolls of thin "spongy" underlay for laminate floors, with foil on one side, but that isn't anything like what you are talking about, and doesn't seem like a good idea acoustically.
Bubbleplastics? There's more than one option ofcourse, ask your floordealer ;)
Would a layer of dry sand be any use for leveling? I'm thinking of building a wooden frame around the edge of the floor area (or maybe just use the sill plates from the walls?), seal the area with polyurethane plastic sheeting, shovel in a layer of dry sand for leveling (maybe an inch or two?), lay 18mm plywood (OSB? MDF?) on top of the sand (bolted to the concrete slab), then lay the laminate floor on top of that.
No. Sand will shift. You'll only end up with a elevated floor; bad idea. If your concrete floor is level (there's also self leveling cement which you can poor) you could GLUE the laminated floor directly on top of the deck. (gluing will prevent rattling etc) otherwise I'd advise to ask your floor dealer (dejavou)
Is that workable? Good idea? Bad idea? Terrible idea?
buzzzzz. no points.
Another idea that some people here have suggested is self-leveling cement, but I'm having a hard time finding a cement supplier here in Chile who can supply that in small quantities (most have never heard of it!). Can I mix it myself? What is it exactly? Is it just a "slushy" mix of normal cement/sand/water, or is there something else in it? I've worked with concrete before, mixing it myself to pour a slab for a shed I built a few years back, so I reckon I could do the job with this self-leveling cement, if only someone would explain how to do it...
ah, that's what I said. (didn't read your message before quote-posting.)Dunno where to get it. If you're a bit experienced you get the job done with cement. Self-leveling or not, you can make it level yourself. whatever.
Soundman2020
buzzzzz. no points.
Damn! OK, I get the hint! And I see why it won't work now. That idea goes out the window... So, I'm back to self-leveling cement. Time to get out the phone book again, and call some more cement companies!!! Thanks! (Sorry for hijacking the thread! I promise I'll leave it alone now...)