How should I approach a mezzanine level studio?

Hello, I'm going to be building a new studio in the near future which will basically just be a CR & small booth, but it will also be attached to a large auditorium. I'm having a little trouble working out how to approach it, as it will be on a mezzanine level (1 floor above ground). I posted on PSW about this recently - here is what I posted: "I’m going to be building a new studio for myself in the very near future in a new space offered to me by my current landlord, which also happens to be a church. I learnt a lot during the build of my current studio (which I’ll be gutting & salvaging as much as possible), but the new location presents a couple of issues which I haven’t dealt with before. The main issue is that the studio is to be built on a mezzanine level, which is timber flooring on wooden joists. I doubt I would be able to afford looking into fully isolating the studio, specifically the floor, so I was hoping for some advice on what level of isolation I would need & how to approach it. The main uses of my studio are mixing, editing & overdubs. I do record entire projects from time to time, including drums, although ideally I use another studio for tracking when the project is a loud rock band or similar. My current studio has a control room of approx. 3.5m x 5.25m & a booth of approx. 3m x 2.5m. The new site is approx. 4.5m x 8.5m in total (I don’t have exact measurements yet) & I was thinking of dividing this in a similar way to my current studio, but with a wide entrance to the booth which could be opened up to create a larger recording area incorporating the control room (the booth would be at the rear of the CR). Directly below the mezzanine level is a space which will likely either become amenities or a storage area. This area is off to the side of what will become the stage of a large auditorium (yes, I’ll be putting in tie-lines). Here’s a photo looking towards what (at this stage) will be the back half of the control room & booth edit: 1st photo shows front half of room, 2nd shows back half. You can see that the sloping ceiling (only the back half slopes) & roof ties will present their own problems, but at this stage I’m just looking for ideas on how to approach the floor, considering I will be mixing, recording mainly vocals & guitar amps, but also the occasional drum kit." (from post made at http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... 4500/6028/ ) Additional information: My current studio was built on an existing concrete slab using double wall construction with timber joists, 12mm firestop on the inner wall, normal 9mm gyprock on the outer wall & the space between the walls completely filled with regular R3 insulation batts. This level of isolation has proven to be adequate for me, though I may look at slightly improving on it if I can, e.g. with thicker gyprock. The big question: Quite simply, how do I approach the floor? The only suggestion made over at PSW was "you can seal the floor then lay rubber screeds and a layer of sand, then 2x4 joists, plywood, seal it, etc". I think, from posts I've read here & from Rod's book, that a concrete or sand filled floor may not be appropriate for me in this case, but I'm not entirely sure. Any advice/info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks & regards, Glenn Santry HeartBeat Studio Sydney, Australia

Does anyone have any experience with this type of flooring from Kinetics?: http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/rimwood.aspx http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/pdf/rimw_install.pdf

Hi Jetbase. That Kinetics flooring stuff does not seem like a good idea, as their web site says it will leave an air space under your floor. That means it will "float" your floor, which is probably NOT a good idea. You might want to read this thread about floating floors: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8173 In order to do it right, you need lots of mass on top, and two layers of plywood is not going to be anywhere near close. More like several inches of solid reinforced concrete! You also need to calculate everything carefully, to ensure that you get the right compression, mass, etc. and that it ends up tuned to frequencies well below the range of human hearing. Basically, if you float your floor and don't get it exactly right, it will be WORSE than not floating your floor at all. Regarding the space that you show in your photos: You should at least post the dimensions, and much better would be to post a 3D SketchUp model, for the experts to get a better idea of what you have. Just posting two photos does not help much!

Thanks for the reply Soundman. I did previously read the thread you refer to, but I was wondering how accurate the claims in the Kinetics blurb on the product were & if the suggestion (toward the end of the blurb) of adding layers of gypsum board to add mass made a difference. What I'd essentially like to know is if there is any workable alternative to floating a concrete slab for my purposes. You (& many others) say that floating a floor & not getting it right is worse than not floating a floor at all, but I don't yet understand what you do when not floating a floor. The reason I haven't posted too much detail yet is because I don't want to go too far into the design of this space if I can't make the floor work - I'm worried about shooting off in the wrong direction & then having to back track & start again. If it helps to determine this though, the exact dimensions of the space are L:8.61m x W:4.22m. The height ranges from 1.97m at it's lowest point to 3.75m at it's highest. Thanks & regards, Glenn

What are you isolating from? What sound levels? What is below the floor? Can you build there to improve isolation? This is not directed at you specifically, but the first thing I have to do to try and help is ask questions that should be obvious to include the information. This isn't the first time this happened, and won't be the last. It is tiresome. Andre

Hi Avare, From my first post, "Directly below the mezzanine level is a space which will likely either become amenities or a storage area. This area is off to the side of what will become the stage of a large auditorium ..." So directly outside two of the studio walls will be the auditorium. The other two walls are brick - one is the perimeter of the building, the other adjoins either offices or a storeroom. There may be a few different activities going on in the building at the same time, e.g. meetings, childrens playgroups, cafe, etc, hence the need for isolation. It'd be nice to isolate against occasional (loud) bands playing on the stage of the auditorium, but that might be asking a bit much. Scheduling will obviously be a factor in using this space successfully. When you say "What is below the floor? Can you build there to improve isolation?", what exactly do you mean? Putting insulation & a suspended ceiling?

hi, The room reminds me of a footy change room. the smell of deep heat! I'm still confused. Is the floor in the photos the mezzanine? D

Not far off D! Judging by the pin-ups & crude graffiti it was a lunch room for a factory (the building's previous use). Yes, the room you see, which I've been offered to turn into a small studio, is on a mezzanine level. Directly outside this room is a stairwell going down to ground level. The remainder of the mezzanine level (outside of this room) will be completely removed. There may be another mezzanine level constructed in the future to facilitate a cafe or similar, but I would be suggesting that it not be coupled directly to this current structure (I don't think that there would be any reason why it would need to be).

" I’m just looking for ideas on how to approach the floor" /quote Hi jetbase. So right to the point. you have a reason for looking at the floor? It's loud? It leaks? Have you measured anything to evaluate your present isolation requirements? Floating floors are difficult because mass is the only thing that sound yields to. Walls, floors, ceilings, windows, doors, et al require mass to contain or isolate from noise. If you have Rods book and/or somewhere around this website there is information on beefing up ceilings. That is what you may need to look into. I know you say floor, but in the final analysis, it's the basement ceiling beefing up information that can help you :) You need to get below the floor where you are. Get out of the room and under the structure so you can look up and make assessment of the ceiling that is over your head. In order to add mass to this leaf of your room, the first place to start is underneath it to determine what you are about to get yourself into :) Hope this helps.

xSpace wrote:

In order to add mass to this leaf of your room, the first place to start is underneath it to determine what you are about to get yourself into :)

Thank you. You summed it up quite nicely. Andre

xSpace wrote:

Hope this helps.

Not only does it help, it gives me hope! The reason I am looking at the floor is because it is just a standard timber floor, like you would find in a house, with no insulation of any kind. There is currently no ceiling below. So, by taking the approach beefing up (or, in fact, installing) the ceiling below, I could essentially make the floor of the studio to have the same kind of isolation I intend to have for the walls & ceiling (in the "additional info" in my first post)? How much of a compromise would this be to the 'room within a room' concept, since the floor would still be coupled to the outer walls & vertical support posts for the mezzanine level (btw, below is ground floor, not basement)?