New rehearsal room build in Scotland-Help needed

This is my first post but i have read and tried to follow the rules, if i have missed anything my appologies and i'll add any additional info. I am shortly going to begin building 2 rehearsal rooms in an empty building in an industrial estate. I have a 5k budget Planning permissions have been granted. These rehearsal rooms will be hired out by local musicians and bands for practicing. We have no neighbours, except for on one side but this is only a storage facility and so noise is not a concern to them. The existing building has concrete floors, brick walls and a pitched fibreglass roof on a steel frame. The image shows the design I am thinking of using for the walls. The diagram does no show the RC which I will use on one leaf in every pair. Also i intend to use green glue which i have not shown in the diagram. Below is a very basic design of the two rooms, it is not to scale. At this point I have not decided on the design for the ceilings of the rooms as I am still slightly unsure on it. My questions are 1. I intend to have this wall design on all four walls of each room, should I use a different design for the wall that the two rooms share? 2.As the existing floor is concrete I thought that floating the floor of the two rooms would not be required. Is this true or would floating the floor be the right way to go? 3. Can anyone point me to information on how best to build the ceiling in rooms of this type?

super effective wrote:

This is my first post but i have read and tried to follow the rules, if i have missed anything my appologies and i'll add any additional info.

Hai and welcome. Finally a newby following rules :)

The image shows the design I am thinking of using for the walls. The diagram does no show the RC which I will use on one leaf in every pair.

When using double stud walls, you don't need RC.

1. I intend to have this wall design on all four walls of each room, should I use a different design for the wall that the two rooms share?

No, not perse. kinda depends on existing walls.. sa you might end up making multiple leafs. Double stud walls are a good choice for sharing rooms.

2.As the existing floor is concrete I thought that floating the floor of the two rooms would not be required. Is this true or would floating the floor be the right way to go?

You thought right, if it's heavy concrete you're already in the save zone.

3. Can anyone point me to information on how best to build the ceiling in rooms of this type?

Just like the walls, sort of. I think you want "room-in-room" constructions. On the inner wall of a room you can rest a dropped-ceiling. The ceiling will also have to have mass, as do the walls. Looks like you're already half way, good job! ps. what's on the right side of the building?

This is the same type of construction I am using for the walls in my studio.. For the ceilings consider RSIC clips and hat channel. They would be decoupled and would hold up to 3 sheets of drywall. This is only if you have an existing ceiling joists that you are contending with.. Mines in basement with limited height. So that was the best way for me to go. Are you planning on using GG between layers of sheet rock? That will be the next thing the guy's in this forum will tell you to do. Good luck!

my main concern with this build would be the acostics inside those square shaped rooms... I know you stated it's a rough sketch of things but just in case. You really need to work on the non symmetrical aspect of the rooms, building as few parallel surfaces as possible. good luck!

Thanks for all your help and suggestions! :D :D :D The right side of the building is where the Recording studio and rooms are going to be built. I am building the two rehearsal rooms first so I can get bands in rehearsing. I hope to start the work on the recording rooms as soon as these rehearsal rooms are up. The Ceiling of my rooms will not be conected to the existing ceiling as the building has a pitched fibreglass roof which is above and out of the way of the new room constructions. Below I have drawn my idea for the construction of the ceilings of the rooms. In the next drawing I have shown what i intend to do between the two rooms. I would really love to hear you guys suggestions and thoughts on my intended plans as I am still a little unsure. I also have a number of small points which confuse me even after much reading. 1.Do I need to tie the two leaves together in any way or should they be completely unconnected? 2.What size of air space should I use between the leaves? I understand that a larger gap is better but space is tight, so what would be a reasonable gap to leave whilst avoiding any nasty wall resonance? 3. For walls should I be using 3x2 or 4x2 studs? 4.Should I use GG between every layer of plasterboard? As for the shape of the rooms yes this is a rough idea, can anyone point me towards some helpful information about room design and non-paralell walls. Better still if anyone has idea of a design that they could post, that would be exellent! Also should I pitch the ceiling of the rooms? Sorry for all the questions, it seems the more I figure out, the more new questions arise..

super effective wrote:

1.Do I need to tie the two leaves together in any way or should they be completely unconnected?

Completely unconnected.

2.What size of air space should I use between the leaves? I understand that a larger gap is better but space is tight, so what would be a reasonable gap to leave whilst avoiding any nasty wall resonance?

There will always be a MAM resonance between the leafs. you doulble framing to avoid mechanical coupling. 25 mm between the frames will be fine.

3. For walls should I be using 3x2 or 4x2 studs?

From your drawings the walls will load bearing (the ceilings), so 2x4s.

4.Should I use GG between every layer of plasterboard?

That is the best thing to do isolation wise. As for the shape of the rooms yes this is a rough idea, can anyone point me towards some helpful information about room design and non-paralell walls. Better still if anyone has idea of a design that they could post, that would be exellent!

Also should I pitch the ceiling of the rooms?

Why would you? If you don't have a reason to do it, don't. Your last drawing shows a triple leaf between the rooms. forget the middle leaf.

Sorry for all the questions, it seems the more I figure out, the more new questions arise..

Nothing to apologize for. the more you know, the better your facility will be. Clear knowledgeable questions, like you just posted, help in getting responses. Andre

Difference between 3 layers of gypsum with GG (1 tube per layer) and 2 layers of GG (2 tubes of layer) is 2 dB, at least for their tests with a single stud wall

Thanks again for all your help! Just a quick question, so that i can start ordering materials What different types of plasterboard should I use for my three layers? Should it be thick/thin/thick? Should I include a layer of sound block?

maybe you could just use 2 layers of 12.5mm plasterboard with resilient bars behind?

elektrasoul wrote:

maybe you could just use 2 layers of 12.5mm plasterboard with resilient bars behind?

I wasn't planning on using RC as Ro has told me, when answering my first post that 'When using double stud walls, you don't need RC'

Where abouts in Scotland? :)

Well, I couldn't get on the site at the most important of times when we started building the rooms. Good thing was it forced me to make decisions and just get on with it. We have now built all the walls to the rooms and plasterboarded all the external ones. I will post some photos soon Our next step is to put up the ceiling joists and then do all the insulation. One question I have is about the doors on the rooms Seeing as I have gone to every effort not to connect the inside and outside walls of the rooms, what should I do at the doors? I intend to have two doors one attatched to the internal and one to the external but what about the gap between the walls, how can I seal that without conecting the two walls?

super effective wrote:

I intend to have two doors one attatched to the internal and one to the external but what about the gap between the walls, how can I seal that without conecting the two walls?

dunno if this is correct, but, just fill it with insulation / expanding foam / caulk (you can get 'acoustic' types but i just went to B&Q. lol) and get some heavy duty rubber door seals. youre threshold will be connecting the two leafs here anyway. btw, where in scotland are you and what type of music are you doing?

So are you saying that the two leaves have to be joined here as it is pretty much unavoidable? i'm in fife in scotland. The studio will be a comercial venture so we will be recording anything and everything. The rooms we are building at the moment are the rehearsal rooms though. Personally I produce jazz hip hop stuff but I have worked as a sound engineer in studios and live for quite a few years so have worked with alot of different genres.

elektrasoul wrote:

dunno if this is correct, but, just fill it with insulation / expanding foam / caulk (you can get 'acoustic' types but i just went to B&Q. lol) and get some heavy duty rubber door seals. youre threshold will be connecting the two leafs here anyway.

Most of this is incorrect. Doors used for isolation are solid core and are very heavy. I think it comes down to the lessor of two evils. The air space has to be terminated with something so as to have it perform the "spring" action derived from mass/air/mass and the doors need something to hang on that will support the weight. It isn't uncommon to have a jamb as wide as the wall-to-wall construction, from the outside of the one wall, to the outside of the opposing wall to hang doors on.

AVare wrote:

Your last drawing shows a triple leaf between the rooms. forget the middle leaf.

Super Effective, I hope you caught this. Building that third leaf would be a giant waste of time and materials.

stuntbutt wrote:

AVare wrote:

Your last drawing shows a triple leaf between the rooms. forget the middle leaf.

Super Effective, I hope you caught this. Building that third leaf would be a giant waste of time and materials.

Yes, I changed my design so that it is just leaf/air/leaf between the two rooms, the same as between the other walls and the outside world. We have now built the rooms and insulated them, next step is to put up the rest of the plasterboard(all the outside walls are done) I have been taking photos on my phone and ill post them as soon as I get the chance. The build has been going really well, its great to actually do the work rather than just theorise over it. Things make alot more sense and seem much simpler when your actually doing it. Of course I wouldnt have been able to get this far if I hadn't researched stuff and had help from the people on this board which has been invaluable. I must admit though, i'm slightly worried to hear how successful my sound proofing measures have been once the build is complete. One final note... I HATE GLASSWOOL!!! :x :x