The 10 million dollar question

How do I soundproof an extremely large area for film making the most cost effective way? And be sure when we spend $50,000 it has actualyl worked? Here’s what we are planning on doing... I’ve read almost everything I’ve gotten my hands on and a LOT that’s here. I am very familiar with all the processes and know there is a big difference between acoustical treatment and a soundproof room (as sound proof as possible anyway). No need for treatment as it's just a soundstage and will not be recording the Boston Symphony! The sound stage (warehouse) currently is all tin and steel frame construction with a concrete floor. Size is 30 x 60 with 14’ to the usable ceiling. Thus floor size is 1800 sq. ft. and surfaces (walls and ceiling) to be covered is 2520 sq. ft. The plan is: Floor: 2” x 6” framed sub-floor covered with two layers of 5/8” chipboard attached to each other with GreenGlue. Prior to attaching chipboard flooring, all frame gaps will be filled with sand in-between and over the existing concrete floor. The top surface will be a layer of 1/4“ neoprene rubber in 48" wide rolls, again attached with Greenglue. Walls/Ceiling: 1. Wood Stud frame through-out, gapped off the tin wall/roof 1-2”. The frames will be covered with a layer of 1/4“ neoprene rubber on the outside facing walls. 2. Stuffed with R-15. Covered with 5/8” drywall, seams taped, mudded, primed, and sealed airtight with Quiet Seal acoustical caulk. 4. Next layer of 3/4” drywall attached to 5/8” under-layer with Greenglue at a right angle and same; seams taped, mudded, primed, and sealed airtight w/acoustical caulk. 5. 4"-6” air-gap 6. Wood Studs framed for 2nd wall & stuffed with R-15. 7. 5/8” drywall attached to all in-facing contact points (studs, floor and ceiling gaps, etc.) with Green Glue. Then all drywall seams taped, mudded, primed, and sealed airtight with acoustical caulk. 8. last layer, this time using 1/2" to 3/4" QuietRock attached to 5/8” under-layer with Greenglue. All seams as before. Acoustical caulk to be beaded at corner, floor and ceiling gaps. All plug holes, etc. to be filled with Quiet Putty. Roof: Tin Roof to be covered outside with 1/4" neoprene rubber. What do you think of the plan? please make any suggestions or changes as that’s why I am posting here for your expert advice before we get going! Many thanks in advance. Billy

Billy, I,ve been involved in movie studio construction - so I have a bit of a feel for what you might be up against. let's begin with some important things that you don't tell us - where are you located ? what is the ambient outside noise levels you hve to deal with now? What are the frequencies in those levels? What are the residule inside ambient noise levels you have now as a result of those outside levels. What is the length of data gathering that you did to assertain the sound levels you need to deal with. Now - a few comments on your intended design........ This first problem I see is that you are building either a 2 or 4 leaf wall assembly depending on exactly how that layer of MLV acts inside of the wall cavity. This I would not recommend. What you want to acheive is a 2 leaf assembly that gives you the isolation you really require. So you should add mass up tight to the inside face of the metal siding on the building. Then you need to step inside of that creating an air gap - and have a 2nd layer of mass on the inside face of that wall assembly. insulation in both frames will enhance your isolation. Next - MLV doesn't necessasarily give you a lot of bang for the buck - you can purchase mass in the form of drywall a whole lot cheaper than you can purchase MLV - with much better results than you can acheive with the MLV. The same question goes for the 3/4" drywall - yuo pay a premium for that over 5/8" (you could probably do 2 layers of 5/8" for what one layer of 3/4" costs you in the end) - what exactly do you think your benefit is with this material. The green glue might make sense or it might not. An example of this might be very dependent on your existing structure and what is actually making it into the building via the existing concrete slab. All in all my BEST recommendation to you would be to first hire an acoustician to do some studies to determine your exact needs. He/she will be able to not only determine a baselline for isolation needs from airborne sound - but can also use the proper equipment to determine what (if any) issues you migth have with the existing foundation/slab. Rod

filmfactory wrote:

Floor: 2” x 6” framed sub-floor covered with two layers of 5/8” chipboard attached to each other with GreenGlue. Prior to attaching chipboard flooring, all frame gaps will be filled with sand in-between and over the existing concrete floor. The top surface will be a layer of 1/4“ neoprene rubber in 48" wide rolls, again attached with Greenglue. Walls/Ceiling: 1. Wood Stud frame through-out, gapped off the tin wall/roof 1-2”. The frames will be covered with a layer of 1/4“ neoprene rubber on the outside facing walls. 2. Stuffed with R-15. Covered with 5/8” drywall, seams taped, mudded, primed, and sealed airtight with Quiet Seal acoustical caulk. 4. Next layer of 3/4” drywall attached to 5/8” under-layer with Greenglue at a right angle and same; seams taped, mudded, primed, and sealed airtight w/acoustical caulk. 5. 4"-6” air-gap 6. Wood Studs framed for 2nd wall & stuffed with R-15. 7. 5/8” drywall attached to all in-facing contact points (studs, floor and ceiling gaps, etc.) with Green Glue. Then all drywall seams taped, mudded, primed, and sealed airtight with acoustical caulk. 8. last layer, this time using 1/2" to 3/4" QuietRock attached to 5/8” under-layer with Greenglue. All seams as before. Acoustical caulk to be beaded at corner, floor and ceiling gaps. All plug holes, etc. to be filled with Quiet Putty. Roof: Tin Roof to be covered outside with 1/4" neoprene rubber. What do you think of the plan? please make any suggestions or changes as that’s why I am posting here for your expert advice before we get going! Many thanks in advance. Billy

+1 to what Rod wrote. You gave little idea on how or what your budget is. Doors are expensive. Electrical power just for lighting is expensive requirements. HVAC is very expensive. Notice a trend? Andre

Thanks Rod... just the answer we were looking for. A few quick answers and then bed! 1. We're in Boston (I though the proile had been updated when i signed up) 2. Street Noise, a fairly busy street 3. Frequencies, residual inside ambient noise levels TBD once we hire a hire an acoustician as per your great suggestion. The remaining suggestions are just what I was after but I'll be honest as honest can be.. a lot of it went over my head. But I'd never try to play that role any more than what we came up with after doing a month or so of research. And that was purely based on what OTHERS have had success with. Taking into account similar building structures and surrounding noise to deal with. There is one roll up door and one pedestrian door that will need to be boxed in. Budget is $75,000 inclusive of power and HVAC but I know I’ll spend $150,000. But I don’t have a penny more. It’s more than adequate if costs are controlled of couse if the room needed to be treated then we'd be in trouble. HVAC will not be completely silent but I have been involved with small stages that cool the room and then only run it as needed. Heat is a non issue as there are brand new units installed that are powerful and dead silent. Heat is rarely an issue other than maintaining 60-65 degrees maximum. Also labor is covered and is not included n he above budget. Educated family members will cover that as long as they start off on the right foot. So… now looking to hire an acoustician. :) Many, many thanks, Billy (and why is your name so familiar aside from here Rod?)

Rod/anyone? What else would an acoustician be called professionally? I have been Google'ing all morning to hire someone but am coming up short. You would think Boston would have plenty, I know i am just barking up the wrong tree. Thank you, Billy

Another name used is studio designer. Uhm, Rod is a studio designer. In addition, John Sayers, Guilfo, and half dozen I forgetting right here. :( Andre

I do not know if we've run across each other before - however - I was the person who developed Power Station New England and oversaw the construction of that studio - and I also headed up the design team and controlled construction of the 15,000 s.f. studio that the Amistad Courtroom scenes were filmed in (this studio utilized my wall designs and HVAC designs ) S. Spielburg told me that it was one of the finest studios he ever worked in - and one of the very few that he did not have to overdub any of the audio due to noise problems while filming. This studio sits adjacent to RT 95 in Waterford, CT - which happens to have a weigh station sitting about 1/8 mile below it (which has the truckers taking off up a slight upgrade when they leave it) so low frequency vibrations and sound are a real potential issue. Here is a local company for you in MA. http://www.acentech.com/services/enviro ... cs.htmlTry this company - http://www.acentech.com/services/enviro ... stics.html East Coast Office [removed] Cambridge, MA 02138 [removed] Fax [removed]

Rod: Once again I am your cerebral debt. I don't know why I did not think of Acentech Andre

AVare wrote:

Rod: Once again I am your cerebral debt. I don't know why I did not think of Acentech

Andre, no problem my friend - no one can think of everything. You do pretty well for yourself as things are......... don't sweat the small stuff (one of my mottos) Other mottos I hold dear..........

"A bird in the hand is worth 2 bushes."

"What's good for the goose is often a gander..........."

"People who live in stone houses shouldn't throw glasses........."

and my all time favorite:

"6 of a 1/2 a dozen of one others"

Sorry for the delay in getting back Rod, for whatever reason I could not login to reply. I will try Acentech and keep you posted.. I would love nothing more than to hire you and hope we can have that conversion as we draw closer. We don’t have anything near what Mr. Spielberg would have other than similar challenges with noise issues but I am so glad to hear almost anything can be overcome. And I bought you book. It came yesterday from Amazon and while I am only a few pages in, I really like your writing style. No nonsense and I think I get your point about following the plan to the letter. Best, Billy