Great design concept. To hang it in the middle of a room with an existing light one could remove the light and mount it to the ceiling electrical box provided its a box meant for something like ceiling fan installation.
Great design concept. To hang it in the middle of a room with an existing light one could remove the light and mount it to the ceiling electrical box provided its a box meant for something like ceiling fan installation.
The cloud is not intended for a center room position. It is to control reflections overhead from entering microphones, like in drum booths, or sound reflecting into the human ear, like in a control room.
The lighting is also on the cloud for a reason. So you do not have to have holes cut into your mass!
The concept of combining lights with your cloud is very reasonable. It is indeed useful and aesthetically good in sight. I am just concerned about placing it overhead, I am not sure if it will affect the sound waves that much neither if it is safe to put it above the entire set.
[SPAM SIGNATURE DELETED]
Sounds like a lead-in to spam for ceiling fans, to me... I'm just waiting for the punch line!
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EDITED TO ADD: Yup! spot on! Two weeks later "she" edited the post to add a spam signature. And thought we would never notice! What a doofus! :)
I might have to "borrow" the light in the middle idea! I might even be inclined to use some small gooseneck type LED's to also light the bottom (visible) side of the cloud for some smooth indirect lighting ;)
How did you decide if you were going to use soft-top clouds or hard-top clouds? I'm currently using soft-topped clouds, but I believe hard topped coulds might help break up the ceiling height modes more effectively as long as they are angled to kill the flutter. Thanks for any info there...
:cool:
Randy- You make it sound like his the 1st "guy" to build a cloud with lights. :D
I know - even the clouds we have at work have lights - but they are so big I sometimes forget they are clouds :) This is a nice and easy retro-fit to my existing clouds, and found it to be a nice clean design idea w/o cutting into the panels themselves for some recessed cans or whatever. Luke 78 and slowjay seemed to like this design as well ;)
lilith_envy wrote:
Do some reading.......
Are you referring to the hard top cloud question I had? I've been reading all I can, and I'm taking away that hard top clouds help break up the ceiling modes beyond the simple absorption capabilities of the panel - but the panel needs to be somewhat close to the ceiling and angled to kill flutter. Is that correct? I have another thread going, and I wasn't getting a common consensus on hard vs soft top clouds when it comes to controlling nasty ceiling modes.
Thanks for any enlightenment there!
:cool:
Randy - the hard top cloud is for breaking up flutter between floor and ceiling - the open top cloud is for suspending insulation off an already angled ceiling so the insulation works on lower frequencies than if just placed directly on the ceiling.
So the hard top will end up negating some of the low frequency damping of an open top cloud spaced off the ceiling, but be better in dealing with mid-to-high frequency flutter? With my current open top 4" thick clouds - I'm satisfied with the flutter control in the mids/highs, but the 50Hz mode is still poking out big time.
My room has a large ~49-50Hz ceiling mode and the ceiling is reflective concrete - so I have major modes AND a parallel floor/celing to consider. Would you lean towards hard topped or open in my case with what little info you have? I'm planning on doubling them to 8" thick to reach a bit lower frequencies if that has any effect on your thoughts...
Thanks!!! :cool:
well - if you'd read what I posted you would realise that the hard top version is best for stopping floor to ceiling flutter when you have a flat ceiling.
Thanks for that clarification. What effect would a hard top have on the low frequency damping of the floor-to-ceiling mode I seem to be having the most issues with? It would seem that spacing an open-top cloud off the ceiling to make it more effective at lower frequencies would not be the same if the cloud has a hard top - correct? I'm assuming the hard topped cloud's low frequency performance would then take on a similar response to having the cloud flush against the ceiling (w/o any spacing)? I'm sure there are tons of other variables at play here, too...
I'm actually satisfied with the mid/high frequency performance of my current clouds (with regard to audible mid/high flutter below the cloud) - so my primary concern is the 50Hz mode at this point.
Or are you getting at the point that my 50Hz mode IS a form of low-frequency flutter (in the form of a room mode)? I get lost on where "flutter" ends and parallel wall/floor room modes begin. I thought they were separate - but I can see how they might actually be one in the same at longer wavelengths...
Thanks so much for your time and wealth of knowledge! :yahoo:
P-E-R-F-E-C-T!!! I'll get cracking on adding hard tops and lights to my clouds!
I might just modify my current 4' x 6' clouds with hard tops, and build a new one similar to MMS' for my drums (also with a hard top). Is there any difference in building the cloud "flat" as pictured and hanging it at a 12 degree angle vs. building the cloud itself at a "v" angle of 12 degrees (lights in the middle with each side of the cloud drooping downwards at 12 degrees)? Sorry for all the Q's - you have already been more than generous. I found the awesome rigid-backed absorber Excel calculator - so I'm sure I can determine the appropriate air gap and ponder 4" vs 8" thickness on my own :)
Thank you so much for the hard top confirmation! :D
building the cloud itself at a "v" angle of 12 degrees (lights in the middle with each side of the cloud drooping downwards at 12 degrees)
I don't think you'd want to build it as a concave surface! (higher in the middle, lower on each side). I reckon that would tend to focus reflections back at the mix position, which is kind of the exact opposite of the purpose of a cloud! If you really have to angle it, then it would arguably be less damaging to angle the sides UP, and leave the MIDDLE lower, so you have a convex surface (as seen from below). However, that would still leave a concave surface above the cloud, and I have no idea what that would do. My guess is that it would not be too bad.
My 0.02
- Stuart -
Cool. I'll just leave it flat, and hang it at an angle. I thought building the cloud at an angle would further scatter the reflections in different directions. I saw a post where John helped a guy with hard topped clouds - and they appear to be angled in such a fashion (2 separate cloud panels forming a quasi vaulted ceiling - where my idea was to make a single cloud with that angle with lights in the middle:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14058&p=98412
(2nd to last post)
download/file.php?id=32059&mode=view
Also - you might recall I'm treating a rehearsal room / tracking room - not a C.R. (You also helped me with the 1/2 in 1/2 out splayed wall a few weeks ago - turned out great so far!).
Thanks for your input! :cool:
Hey Randy. Glad to hear that it is working out for you!
The image that you linked too isn't really the same as what you described: John shows two clouds, angled, but with a gap between them. :)
- Stuart -
Got'cha - and makes sense. I'm still tackling our ugly room - but the info I recieved here with regard to the clouds should help my 50Hz issue significantly IMO!
This place and the lovely people here absolutely rule! Thanks so much :D
One quick cloud Q - What is the recommended thickness for the top of a hard topped cloud? Is the top part of the system and will resonate/damp accordingly - or do I just want it as stiff as possible to reflect the sound? I'm tentatively planing on using a 1/2" thick top to keep the weight down - but I can go with a 3/4" top if needed. I'll be building a 12" thick cloud with less dense 5,000 rayls/m pink insulation (opposed to 703) as this seems to have MUCH greater effect in the 50Hz range I need to address...
Thanks!
Well - I went ahead and made a new drum cloud. It is 4' x 8' x 12" - I used regular pink insulation (approx 6,000 Rayls/m), 1"x12" timber for the frame, and a 1/2" B/C plywood top. I loosely braced the top with a 1"X4" running across the middle (as pictured) - and I put lights down the middle as well. It is sealed very well (assembled with Tight-Bond-II + Screws and caulked with latex caulk). I stole MMS's string/eyelet concept to hold the insulation in place (great idea!). This thing weighs a TON - so I'll likely have to increase my ceiling eyelets to the next size up to make sure they don't pull out of the ceiling (means another round of drilling into the concrete ceiling with a hammer drill - oh joy! :( ).
I really hope this will help with the 50Hz ceiling mode I was getting. If it helps the 50Hz null at the drum throne, then I'll replace the other two 4" thick 703 clouds with these 12" designs - and re-purpose the 703 from the original clouds for super chunks, etc. It will be hung at an angle - roughly 8" at one end and 16" at the other (averages to 12" - the same depth as the cloud - seemed to provide a good absorption coefficient around ~50Hz).
A few pics below. I'm thinking I'll leave the frame unfinished as the scope of this rehearsal room project is not very fancy - but I might paint it. Still pondering that part.
Any suggestions if I build more of these? Thanks!!! :cool:
