Designing a recodring studio in an underground garage

Thanks John - I'm actually recovering very fast - I'm feeling better now than I was before and have much more energy. :) Yes - I'd angle the south walls in the rooms you mentioned. I'd probably angle the live room with angled slots.

Very happy to hear that John! Energy is the key! Use it well... :wink: Thanks for the advice, I knew there was something wrong with those walls... I'll update my design and get ready for some more studying... I feel like I'm back in college! Without the parties that is... :cry:

Pretty similar to what I am planning. I would change the windows and doors in the CR though: have the one into the live room mirror the one coming in from the hallway into the CR. I would put windows to look from the CR into the live room and drum room and enter the drum through a door from the hallway. This will help isolate between the drum and control room. Best of luck with your studio! Greetings, Dirk

And I'm back! Hello everyone, it's been more than a month since my last post, my hands were full of various stuff like hard work in the office (typical), start of excavation of our building’s foundation (my brother was supervising that, thank god), my engagement with my in-two-years-bride-to-be girlfriend (pointing a gun on my head was not an argument to easily ignore) and a week of camping to a beautiful beach with no soul around but myself, my fiancée and my dog. And guess what I was doing all this time and between all these things: reading whatever I could find about recording studio design and construction! Many things I’ve read made sense, others were a bit dodgy and others were all Greek to me (and I’m Greek!). That’s why I came back to this forum, to get some answers and clarify some of these aspects. And I must warn you; this is going to be a long post but bear with me, please! OK, where do I start? Oh, yes, I paid two visits to a public underground garage (as Brien suggested, thanks man), which is very similar to the one we’re going to build, a bit larger though, trying to study the sound and acoustic properties of the place during the day when vehicles come and go with their engines roaring and their tires screaming and during the night when everything is quite. Oh my God! It was a nightmare both day and night! I swear, if I was not the patient type I would throw the whole project into the trash right away. I expected that much from my observations at daytime but not in the night! Even a clap with my hands or a stump with my boot’s heel produced such a thunder, imagine what would happen if I played my drums! Anyway, this project requires a great deal of low frequency absorption, as well as for mid/high ones, keeping sound waves out of the studio as well as keeping them in. I hope I’ll manage to do that, with your help of course! Now, back to the design table. The Grant Design! Although I was satisfied with the plan I made according to one of John’s designs, I tried to give it a shot with another approach, rotating 90 degrees anticlockwise the Control room to face the Live room. I just feel more comfortable with the idea of sharing a straight eye contact between me and the musicians. Another thing I considered was the placement of the Drum room. I imagined myself playing in there and I realised that I would not be able to clearly see my band mates! I would feel isolated (which is a good thing sound-wise but not psychological-wise as Rod Gervais mentioned on Ethan Winer’s forum, thanks Rod!). Besides, the Live room is too big (35m2) for just a bunch of guitar/bass/keyboard players. Drums should be in there, isolated or not. This a picture of the plan I came up, without the WC/kitchen/lounge details (not so important at this stage, I know the WC and kitchen will be located in the north-east corner so that their pluming wouldn’t interfere with the Live/Control rooms’ double frame walls). I haven’t included any dimensions since you can measure whatever you like from the Sketchup file garage_v2.skp that you'll find HERE. I started by separating the studio from the rest of the garage by embracing it with a long single frame wall, starting from the western concrete wall, routing it around the columns that reside inside, turn it up to the northern concrete wall and left up to the point where the northern wall’s angle changes. On the outer side of the wall, I placed 4 layers of 1,5cm (5/8”) drywall, separated by whatever damping material I can find (green glue looks promising but no one knows it here). Inside the frame’s cavity, I placed 8,75cm (3,5”) insulation. This covers the open air part of the studio. Inside this covered space, I designed the Control room, Live room and Air Lock using a typical double frame wall (2 layers of 1,5cm (5/8”) drywall, separated by damping material, 8,75cm (3,5”) insulation, 5cm (2”) air space, 8,75cm (3,5”) insulation, 2 layers of 1,5cm (5/8”) drywall, separated by damping material) with inner frame not touching anything and outer frame connects to 4 points of the single frame wall. Note that the south wall of the Live room was angled like that to provide a sufficient space between the room and the outer single frame wall, just like the Air Lock on its right. Now is the time to address my concerns about this design: 1. Should the single frame wall that embraces the studio be expanded to cover all sides (including the western and northern one? 2. Should the single frame wall actually be a double frame wall if the 4+2 layers of drywall, the air locks and the double frame walls don't suffice? 3. What about the 4 parts of the single frame wall connecting to the double frame wall? Doesn't the two-leaf system become three-leaf? Any suggestions of how to overcome this or is it a minor glitch? 4. How can I divide the Live room so that it would accommodate a Drum room and maybe an ISO booth without sacrificing a lot of space? OK, I was gonna start talking about the floor and ceiling but that's enough! I think I'm way over my head with such a long post! I'm very sorry about this, I hope you'll help me sort these concerns out; I'm trying really hard to follow the theory and translate it to a practical design. Thank you all for your time and patience. John PS: I've read Lou's whole thread (hey Lou, I hope you are doing fine in that little paradise you call studio). I was so in tune with this guy by reading his progress and watching his photos that (I'm not ashamed to tell you) tears came out when I reached the part that due to his busy schedule, he decided to call the experts to finish the job. I would have done the same thing. In my case though, I don't have a schedule, I'm free to start this whenever I feel ready and capable of doing it right. If I'm not sure that I have this down to the last detail, I will not do it at all, so, please, help me do it right.

It's been a week since my last post, more than 200 people read it and no one botherred to say something, anything about my design or the layout of the walls I proposed... I'm not complaining, I know everybody has a full schedule, I'm just saying... :oops: First of all, my brother told me that the plans for the building were updated just before he handed them to the Urban Planning Department and he forgot to give them to me! :shock: No major changes but still... :evil: Anyway, I continued my research and I spotted a few flaws about my layout that I will remedy and share with you in the near future. I realised that the concrete wall surrounding the allocated studio space is actually A LEAF :shock: , so why do I bother separating the double wall from it? That would be a 3-leaf layout! Instead, I will place a 2" fiberglass insulation, covering the concrete wall and then raise the inner leaf with enough (2" to 4") air space between them. I'm still considering the 4 layers of drywall for the outer leaf of the southern and eastern wall (no concrete wall there :roll:) or a sandwitch of drywall-MDF-drywall which btw I'm starting to find appropriate for the inner leaf's layout. One thing that puzzles me is the angle of the walls. Do I design the rooms rectangular or with angled walls or even with rectangular outer leaves and angled inner leaves, considering the treatment of the rooms afterwards? Decisions, decisions... :? Always appreciating the help I get from this forum, John PS: There's an error on Everest's MHoA 4th ed. (page 277). Louden's third ratio (F) should be 1 - 1.5 - 2.1, not 2.5. I've made an excel file for calculating the dimensions of a room, given any dimension (height, width, length) for all ratios that Everest refers to. You can find it HERE. Enjoy! :thu:

Hai Lemon, Sorry you didn't get any answers.. That "airlock", is that just an empty cavity? no doors or anything? (the term "airlock" is to separate rooms with space so to speak) yes, your exterior wall is a leaf already. Didn't anyone tell you yet? you could beef it up ofcourse. Single inside walls; check. Add mass to make it a heavy one if you like. Is your building an existing one or are you gonna build it from scratch? (haven't read the whole thread, sorry.. lazy)

After more than a month of posting my updated design, I just noticed that only Ro replied... :( Ro, I know that wasn't a typical airlock, that's why I had it in quotes... Nevertheless, you were right; it was more like a waste of space. The building doesn't even exist yet, only the foundation (I’m planning to take some pictures later this week). Anyway, I have a new design to show you and I think I'm getting pretty close to declare it as my final one. I feel very good about it, except for a few details that I will mention later. Here are a couple of pictures from my new design. First of all, I built the southern and eastern concrete wall of 30cm (1ft) thickness (two layers of 15cm (0,5f) width concrete blocks, cemented together). This wall joins with the already constructed concrete wall and columns of the building, thus creating my outer leaf wall. Next, I place 2" of insulation around the concrete wall, leave 2" of air space, another 2" of insulation and finally 2" of drywall (layers of drywall with MDF in between or just drywall, I haven't decided yet...). That covers my inner leaf wall. On the right of my design, I have used 11m2 for the kitchen/lounge/wc area. On the centre, I have the CR facing 40m2 of recording space divided into three rooms, StudioA, StudioB and ISO booth. Lastly, below the CR, I have a 2m2 airlock or storage room (more on this later on). Now, I'll explain each room below: =============================================================== Position: left top corner Dimensions: 4,02m (13f) length x 2,26m (7,5f) big side width, 1.80m (6f) small side width x 2,5m (8f) height, close to Louden's 2nd ratio 1 : 1.3 : 1.9. Description: 8m2 left over space from the two other rooms, used as an ISO booth for vocals or single instruments Access points: 1m (3f) width door and 1,5m (5f) length x 1m (3f) width window =============================================================== Position: left bottom corner Dimensions: 4,02m (13f) length x 3,34m (11f) width x 2,61m (8,5f) height, Sepmeyer’s 2nd ratio 1 : 1.28 : 1.54 Description: 13,5m2 room used as a drum room or as an alternative room for recording small bands (2-3 people) Access points: 2m (6f) width sliding doors and 1,5m (5f) length x 1m (3f) width window =============================================================== Position: left centre Dimensions: 5,36m (17,5f) big side length, 4,93m (16f) small side length x 3,63m (12f) width x 2,59m (8,5f) height, close to Louden's 1st ratio 1 : 1.4 : 1.9 Description: 18,5m2 main room used for recording anything that knocks on my door Access points: 2m (6f) width sliding doors, 1m (3f) width door, 0,8m (2,5f) width door and 2m (6f) width sliding doors or 1,5m (5f) length x 1m (3f) width window (see further down) =============================================================== Position: right centre Dimensions: 4,6m (15f) length x 3,15m (10f) width x 2,42m (8f) height, close to Louden's 2nd ratio 1 : 1.3 : 1.9 Description: 14,5m2 control room Access points: 2m (6f) width sliding doors and 0,8m (2,5f) width door or 1,5m (5f) length x 1m (3f) width window and two 0,8m (2,5f) width doors (see further down) =============================================================== As you can see, I haven't used any acoustic treatment in my design. That's going to happen later on. Now, about that airlock/storage room dilemma I have. Should I use that room as an airlock from the CR to StudioA, thus having two doors on the south wall of the CR and a window on its front wall or just use it as a storage room and have the CR with sliding doors opening to StudioA? I'm not very fond of the first scenario cause I think the second door to the airlock is going to mess with my RFZ and the acoustic treatment in general. What do you think? Two scenarios, two .skp files compressed, in case you need to check details and measurements (files were too big to upload so I had to remove my basin/mirror and toilet from the WC... :roll: ). If you’ve managed to read so far, thank you for your patience and time. Any suggestions/corrections would be much appreciated. Cheers, John PS: Since John's moved the forum to another server, I'm experiencing problems like page loading errors, timeouts, too many connections etc. Is it just me (my ISP updates the service centers in my neighbourhood for more than a week now :roll: ) or is it something that the server's administrators should look into? Just a thought... :thu:

those rooms are fairly small John - here's a suggestion. cheers john

John, I liked your layout, until I saw Mr. Sayer's. I would like to suggest that 7.5 ft ceilings are too low.

John, thank you so much for spending your valuable time for my design, I really appreciate it! I agree that 3 out of 4 rooms are a bit smaller than the 1500cf limit but all I tried was to divide this difficult-to-work area according to the "golden" room ratios. I can see you returned to the original design. Fine by me, I liked that too but before I make a few comments on that, let me share my dream with you. My vision for this project is to have a kind of Musical Workshop for me, my band and other musicians who would like to reherse, practise or just jam their music and record/mix a demo that they would present to anyone's interested (managers, record companies etc.). I'm not really going to go and mix a professional CD cause I don't have the budget and specially the expertise for that... I don't mind pushing the limits a bit lower than normal to accomplish that. Besides, and correct me if I'm wrong, smaller rooms could sound a lot better with the proper treatment. Take Lou's studio for example. The CR is about 13m2 and the LR is less than 10m2. According to Lou, it sounds awesome. OK, enough about dreams, let me comment on your design for a bit. There are some "grey" areas on your design that I need to clear up before I declare this as a final option. 1. You kept the concrete wall as an outer leaf. So, do you agree that it would work better compared to a frame with a bunch of drywall layers and insulation? Keep in mind that cars will pass by that wall, even a meter (3 feet) away. 2. You have approximately 4cm of air space between the inner leaf and the concrete wall. Is that sufficient? What about insulation connecting to the concrete wall for dampening vibrations? 3. You have 10cm (4") of air space between the outer and inner leaves. Since you have 10cm thick outer and inner leaves, should I assume that a sufficient amount of insulation is included? 4. You removed the inner leaf frame for the kitchen/lounge/wc area. Why's that? Don't you think it would help to the overall isolation of the area (CR and DR)? 5. CR is not completely symmetrical and the door on the right wall is too close to the corner, interefering with potential treatment (bass trap). 6. I noticed you only used a 10cm single frame wall between the CR and the drum room. Why's that? I thought that any gorilla (including myself) that plays the drums should be separated by a double wall assembly. And lastly 7. Double opening doors versus double sliding doors. I think the first offer the best STC between the two but they need the extra space around to open, is this correct? I know you are very busy and I hope I didn't get too boring and tiring with my dreams and comments. I just made them because you took the time to make me a sketchup design and it would be a shame to keep it aside. I'm grateful for all your help, John

John - it's just a guide - I left the kitchen bathroom area for you to work out and the double doors were the first I grabbed :)

John Sayers wrote:

John - it's just a guide - I left the kitchen bathroom area for you to work out and the double doors were the first I grabbed :)

Right... let me get that fishing hook out of my mouth... I got a bit carried away, didn't I? :oops: I'll get back to the design table now, if you don't mind... :wink: Cheers, John

:D - it's fun, isn't it. :thu:

What do you think: I couldn't post the sketchup file. If you need it, I can try it again later.

jlemon wrote:

Take Lou's studio for example. The CR is about 13m2 and the LR is less than 10m2. According to Lou, it sounds awesome.

It does!!!!! And, moreover, my iso booth is out of this world. :D Hi John - Well spotted, your estimates on my dimensions are pretty well bang on. I'd still listen to 'The Man' though, 'cos he really does know!!!!!!!! :wink: :wink: Stick around here my friend and I promise you'll be just fine. Good luck with your project, bud Regards, Lou. 8)

VK: Thanks a lot for the effort! I really appreciate it. However, things changed as I will explain in a bit... :(

Lou wrote:

I'd still listen to 'The Man' though, 'cos he really does know!

Hey Lou, what's up? Dude, why do you think I'm still hanging around here? :D Now for the bad news... Out of curiosity, I got my sketchup plan (the one before John's) and took measurents for the materials I would need to get (concrete blocks, drywall panels, floor finish, doors, windows etc.). The resulting price was WAAAY above my initial budget in mind. :shock: I realised that I have to make a compromise about the studio's functionality. Extra rooms equals extra walls, extra doors, extra windows equals extra money that I don't have. So, I decided to make this a Control Room - Live Room project, no drum room, no vocal room whatsoever... Back to drawing board I guess... In the meantime, if you guys have an idea of how to divide the area into a CR, a LR and a kitchen/lounge/wc, hit me! Thank you all again for your help and support, John PS or Moral Lesson: don't get overexcited and plan ahead of your budget, you'll slam your face on the wall (concrete or drywall, doesn't matter... :roll: ) pretty hard... :(

Hello people, I just wanted to give you an update of how things are going with my design. Back to the design board, again :roll: , trying to apply John's suggestions with my personal preferences and thinking about my budget at the same time. Not an easy task... During that process, I modified my previous design, having one large LR instead of two small ones. Vocals can be recorded in CR, so no VR. After some more research on double frame walls, I increased the air gap between the outer and inner leaves from 5cm (2") to 10cm (4"). So, we have 2 layers of 15cm (6") concrete blocks, 5cm (2") of insulation, 10cm (4") air gap, 5cm (2") of insulation, 3 layers of 1,3cm (5/8") drywall for the wall around the studio (55cm (22") wall... :shock:) and 3 layers of 1,3cm (5/8") drywall, 5cm (2") of insulation, 10cm (4") air gap, 5cm (2") of insulation, 3 layers of 1,3cm (5/8") drywall for the wall (30 cm(12") total thickness) separating the LR from the CR and around the CR. The floor is elavated 20 cm (8") for the LR and CR and 20 cm (8") more for the drum riser in LR and couch riser in CR. Floor to ceiling distance will start at 250cm (8,5') from the front walls and fall to 230cm (7,5') for the back walls. The CR is slighty larger than the previous one and in order to get to LR, you have to go first through the CR and then through an airlock but that's something that I can't avoid in such a narrow space. I've also, for the first time since I started this whole project, considered and included acoustic treatment for both rooms and soffit mounting speakers (60 degrees was not an option due to CR's width, 90 degrees works just fine) for the CR. Corner bass traps (superchuncks), slat resonators, panel absorbers and clouds will be in order. I'm considering the possibility of adding diffusion for the back wall in LR and CR but that's another discussion for another forum... :wink: What else... Hmmm... I think I'll stop here. Please, pretty please, if you read my thread and check my design and you feel that something is missing or needs to be fixed, tell me about it. Give me something solid to work on. If you wanna check my design, you can download the .skp file I attached. For a full version (with furniture, people etc.), click HERE. Unitl next time, John

Hello boys and girls, hope you're all doing fine... Since nobody bothered to comment on my previous design, I can only assume that, either I'm going in the right direction or my project is so damn hot due to the complexity of the available space that only an acoustics professional would touch it (and expect to be paid for that of course). When the time comes to get started with the construction phase, if I don't feel confident enough, I'll consider hiring professional help... In the meantime, it's time for another design (.skp file attached). And drawing this was definately fun! Same principles with my previous design as fas as isolation is conserned (I'm not gonna write all that stuff again) but different layout. We have a smaller Live room on the left, slightly larger Control room in the middle and ISO room (drums, vocals, amps etc.) on the right with a slightly larger lounge/kitchen/wc area. So, CR in the middle, with two windows, viewing both LR and DR and with two opposite/parallel doors, one for going into LR on the left and one getting into CR on the right. DR has its own door on the hallway. And now for the fun part! Acoustic treatment! :) Absorbers made with 10cm (2") of insulation cover all three rooms. Next step (more fun :D ) is to decide what kind of absorbers will go where. OK, let's get serious for a moment, I know acoustic treatment comes waaay after you finish construction of the place and is applied after measuring the rooms but it's not a crime to try to visualise how the studio is gonna look like... :oops: That's all for today, I wish you all a happy weekend, John PS: Forgot to ask... which design would you consider better? The LR-CR one or the LR-CR-DR I just posted? :?:

Jlemon Wrote:

Since nobody bothered to comment on my previous design, I can only assume that, either I'm going in the right direction or my project is so damn hot due to the complexity of the available space that only an acoustics professional would touch it

Really sorry about the lack of comments for you my friend, but would suggest that it’s no more than a coincidence that people up here have been busy over the last couple of weeks. :( Your sketchup skills far outweigh mine, and, I’m no acoustician by any stretch of the imagination, however, as you may know, I’ve been through it all big time over the last 15 months, so here comes my two......................... (please substitute the currency of your choice). :wink: In 999.99 cases out of a thousand, I would opt for your LR-CR-DR design, with one exception that I’ll get to in a moment. First off, the layout. You have the perfect environment to be ‘smack’ in the middle of the action, you have visual communication in both directions, and you can (like me) turn the lights practically off in your control room, and full on in your adjacent rooms, so that the ‘musos’ will hardly know you’re there. :D :D Furthermore, you could also consider running additional tielines to your dead area (at the bottom right of your plan) for that guide vocal you need whilst drums (LR), bass (DR), and keyboards (CR) are being recorded. Here comes the exception. You seem to be trying to cram a lot of space into a relatively small control room. Perhaps you want to make sure that all the musos have plenty of space to work. All this is fine, but bear in mind that your talent will only be in your rooms whilst they are recording a take. Guess where they’ll want to be sat after that? :idea: The three piers that you show in your last plan view jpeg, I suspect are structural/load bearing etc, but rather than put your left hand CR wall to the right of the left most pier, I’d suggest putting it to the left and ‘losing’ said pier behind your wall and treatments. I’d further suggest doing the same with your right hand control room wall (up to but not including the middle pier) to give you the symmetry that you know you must achieve. IMHO, as long as you have enough space to set up a monster kit with all mics and stands etc in your live room, and similarly enough room in your DR/Iso booth to put a singer and or bass cab and still be able to comfortably walk around it all, then you’ll be able to cover pretty much anything that a band could throw at you. (Unless of course they happened to be an 18 piece big band or a symphony orchestra). Bottom line for me would be, get that control room as big as you possibly can without making the other rooms seem claustrophobic. Maintain your room ratios of course, but who’s gonna’ be spending all his time in that (at the moment) little room in the middle? Yup – you are! :wink: :wink: Hope this helps…………………………just a little, and the very best of luck with your project. Kind regards, Lou. 8)

Hey Lou, so nice of you to drop by and comment on my design! I really appreciate your opinion as a man's who, to get to heaven, walked through hell and lived to talk about it... Respect... :thu:

Lou wrote:

Really sorry about the lack of comments for you my friend, but would suggest that it’s no more than a coincidence that people up here have been busy over the last couple of weeks. :(

No, it's ok, lets face it, my project can be very intimidating... it's not every day you get to see someone, crazy enough, trying to build a recording studio in an underground garage... :oops:

Lou wrote:

You seem to be trying to cram a lot of space into a relatively small control room. Perhaps you want to make sure that all the musos have plenty of space to work. All this is fine, but bear in mind that your talent will only be in your rooms whilst they are recording a take. Guess where they’ll want to be sat after that? :idea:

Well, the thing is, as I have mentioned in an earlier post, my first priority is to provide young musicians (or old farts like me :roll: ) a place to be relaxed, creative and have fun. Considering how narrow my place is, and with these bloody piers getting in the way :evil: , I don't think I can have the luxury of having a larger CR and still have enough space for the two other rooms. I'm still working on it though... :wink: Thanks again for your support dude, John

Well, guess what... It's design presentation time again! Same principles, slightly larger CR, slightly smaller LR, same DR... This is the largest CR I could come up with (18,5m2), in a LR-CR-DR configuration, without compromising room ratios, viewing angles, CR symmetry, area coverage, etc. It's simply impossible with this kind of area width and with those columns getting in the way... :( I haven't decided which one of the room configurations I'll use (LR-CR or LR-CR-DR). I like both designs, each one has its cons and pros... I guess I'll decide when the time comes for the construction phase to start. In the mean time, feel free to comment on anything you like. Cheers, John

Lou-"In 999.99 cases out of a thousand, I would opt for your LR-CR-DR design, with one exception that I’ll get to in a moment" Is that one of those made up statistics that Xspace was banging on about? :D Sooo, more to the point. Can you afford this last design? It looks pretty good. if you can guarantee that after construction you have sufficient isolation from traffic noise with the funds you have then go for it. I would build in stages. Finish off the live room completely first to see if it works. If it doesn't you will need to add layers to the build, eating up funds. lil

Hey lil, thanks for visiting my thread, really appreciate your feedback!

lilith_envy wrote:

Lou-"In 999.99 cases out of a thousand, I would opt for your LR-CR-DR design, with one exception that I’ll get to in a moment" Is that one of those made up statistics that Xspace was banging on about? :D

That was made up? :shock: Lou... :P

lilith_envy wrote:

Can you afford this last design?

I was afraid of that question... :oops: I haven't actually sat down to calculate the costs for this design but I think it's gonna be less expensive than my first 4-room design and more expenisve than my 2-room design... I'll get to it when I have more time and I'll get back to you with the results.

lilith_envy wrote:

It looks pretty good. if you can guarantee that after construction you have sufficient isolation from traffic noise with the funds you have then go for it.

Every day I get busy with this project I think about this... :? Is it gonna be sufficient enough to block all that noise from vehicles just outside the wall or from the garage floor above? I really don't know... I'm gonna run some proper tests when the garage floors will be build to determine the actual isolation I will need. That's why I have modified my layout specs so many times, having thicker and thicker walls every time... More mass, more air, more mass... I'm afraid I'm gonna reach a point in this project that I will be face to face with the painful truth: nothing I can do is going to be enough... :(

lilith_envy wrote:

I would build in stages. Finish off the live room completely first to see if it works.If it doesn't you will need to add layers to the build, eating up funds.

Of course you're right, it would be foolish to finish the whole thing just to find out that it's worthless. I have to buld the whole outer leaf though (the one foot concrete wall surrounding the studio), get some measurements and then, if it looks promising, build the inner leaf for the live room. If it works, great! If it doesn't, I'll demolish the wall and rent the place for parking. Still, that's gonna be an expensive experiment but I'm prepared to take the risk. Thanks again for your comments, Cheers John

OK, this is an estimate of the expenses that follow my two final designs (LRCR and LRCRDR). Surprisingly, the difference between the two designs is not that much to consider having two budgets (it's about 5000 euros (7000$)). Walls (solid concrete blocks, steel frames, drywall, insulation, floor finish, windows, doors) will be about 25000 euros (35000$). HVAC system (units, channels, silencers) will be about 5000 euros (7000$). Electrical (mains switch board, plugs, sockets, cables, lights, dimmer (maybe), secutiry lines) will be another 5000 euros (7000$). Plumbing (wc, sinks, insulation, high pressure pump) will be about 1000 euros (1500$). Contructor will be free (I have to convince my brother for that though... :roll: ) Above expenses include work hours. Total: more than 35000 euros (50000$). Ouch! :cry: And that doesn't include equipment... How much will it be with minimum equipment (a pair of monitors, 24 channel mixer console, drums, guitar, bass, keyboards, two guitar one bass one keyboard amplifiers, microphones, furniture) is something that I don't want to consider it right now. I'm still trying to digest the first estimate... :cry: Cheers, John PS: :cry:

Hello friends, I wish Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year for everyone here! :yahoo: This is very embarrasing for me to say, but this whole thread was for nothing! :shock: Well... not for nothing, but let me finish. :? I had a very interesting meeting with my brother about the progress of our "little project". I told him a few things about the studio and he simply announced me that the place I chose for the studio is bad for business, because I take the place of 5 parking slots! :shock: And I hate that he's right... :evil: It's too much to give away a steady income, just for the fun of it... :cry: I was ready to collapse when he offered me the place we were considering to use as storage houses, on the other side of the garage, same floor. :? There is a picture of the whole floor, with the area I was offered separated from the rest of the floor with the dark concrete wall and layed out with wood floor. The rest of the floor is marked for explanation. P is for possible parking space... :roll: 110m2 coverage, 20m2 more than my first choice, more rectangular, away form the car lift, three pros :thu: but also with two great cons :?: , a bloody pier getting in the middle of my way :evil: (picture below) and my neighbours are very noisy :evil: (water pumps, boiler, lift, picture below). Nothing changes as far as construction is conserned. Concrete and more concrete all around. 3m (10f) height, dimensions are in the sketchup file I attached. Well... that was fun, wasn't it! :roll: A new place to play with! :horse: Seriously, if I try to remember the hours I've spent with the place I chose first, I would lose my mind for sure... :cry: If I didn't think that I got better and wiser as far as this "building-a-studio" project is conserned, because of these hours, I would give it up... :cry: I'll try to find a solution with the new space (that pier is getting on my nerves already :evil: ), in the meantime, if you think of something that could help me, please, don't hold it inside... :oops: Best wishes, John