room response/adam p22

i just finished my new room and moved my ADAM p22s+desk + other furniture in there. broadband trapping is applied to walls, ceiling and a few wall/ceiling corners. the room size is 22 ft x 12.5 ft x 8.2 ft. i was previously in a room that was 1/3rd of the size of this roomand i was happy with the ADAMs in that room. i feel the sound of the ADAMs changed quite a lot, imaging is great, wide , mid and high frequency range is detailed though a bit splashy, maybe adjustments on the back cure that. now for the lowend. it sounds weak compared to what i'm use to in the other room, theres no depth to it i dont "feel" any bass. .. did some tests, moved the speakers around a bit and i think i got the optimal location now. Bass is still not how i want it to be though. i added the graph of the measurements to this post, is there any points that could be solved with specific trapping or maybe a subwoofer? if more info needed, just let me know Thanks!

The solution is always more bass traps, though positioning should be optimized first. If your room is not set up more or less as shown here, try this next: How to set up a room --Ethan

ethan thanks for your reply i read all your articles and i still refence them every now and then, very useful. my listening position is set u according to the 38% rule , with some pragmatic moving around to find the best compromise. before i think my speakers were in a null, cones were working hard to put out any ass, but nothing much was happening. after some repositioning thats a bit better still i find the adams bass light. applying more low end traps is certainly something i m gonna do. when you look at the graph, is this response something that can be adressed with a sub or a bigger speaker or is this something more trapping should solve? i rather put the money where its most effective.. how do you read these graph properly anyway, i find very little useful info on that online..

jaye wrote:

when you look at the graph, is this response something that can be adressed with a sub or a bigger speaker or is this something more trapping should solve?

How low (-3 dB frequency) are your speakers rated to? I see less output below 60 Hz, and IMO speakers need to get down to at least 50 Hz or lower.

how do you read these graph properly anyway, i find very little useful info on that online..

That graph is not so useful, but you have the data so maybe you can display it in different ways? I prefer 1/3 octave smoothing for 300 Hz and above, and higher resolution than 1/12th octave below 300 Hz. You also need to display a waterfall plot to see the modal ringing. What program do you use? Regardless, this will help: Using ETF --Ethan

they are supposed to go as low as 38hz according to the specs, but i dont think they are really capable of that. i'll do more measurements as you describe. <300hz @1/24 octave smoothing and >300hz@1/3 octave smoothing + the waterfall plot. i use Fuzzmeasure you recommended that for mac in your link ;-) i'll post the new graphs tomorrow thanks!

i just ran out on the trial period, after that its limited in functionality. i.e. i cant do waterfall plots. need to find an alternative for fuzzmeasure, really justify spending $150 on it now. you got any suggestions? thanks! Jaye

for now heres the graphs for the >300hz and <300hz as you specified. Thanks!

jaye wrote:

for now heres the graphs for the >300hz and <300hz as you specified.

Can you turn off the smoothing? Or at least set it to 1/24 or 1/48 octave? As for your speakers, that's why I asked for the 3 dB down point. I'd expect a reputable company to spec that honestly. But a generic "frequency range" means nothing without plus/minus limits.

need to find an alternative for fuzzmeasure, really justify spending $150 on it now.

You have $2500 speakers but can't come up with $150? :) --Ethan

hahaha, ethan you got me there, call me a cheapskate ;-) i should spend that money, ive been investing a lot lately and try to keep t to a minimum if at all possible. here the new graphs at 1/48 smooting thanks

i just bought the license to Fuzzmeasure ;-) so the waterfall plot you want them separated for Lf and mid/HF as well or should it be fullrange?

jaye wrote:

i just bought the license to Fuzzmeasure

There ya go.

so the waterfall plot you want them separated for Lf and mid/HF as well or should it be fullrange?

I prefer 20-300 Hz at high resolution for the bass range, and 1/3 octave smoothing above that. BTW, after I posted yesterday I looked up the specs on your speakers. The vendor claims +/- 3 dB down to 38 Hz, but that could be taken as -6 dB. --Ethan

A few thoughts to add.... Yes, bass traps will definitely help you. Room EQ Wizard is another good program to try.... and it's free. It's possible that in your previous, smaller room you got used to hearing some artificial peaks introduced by the room; in the larger room these peaks aren't as noticeable, so the bass sounds "weaker" to you. Apart from being "weaker," how is the accuracy? Are your mixes translating well? Once you get some high-res graphs posted, we'll be able to help more. My suspicion is that once you have bass traps in the room, you may not need a sub, depending of course on your preference and what style(s) of music you work with.

About the waterfall plots, i done 2 , not sure if this is what you mean and the needed info is represented by them. if i do 1/3 octave smoothing on the >300hz range it almost becomes a flat line that can't be useful is it? thats why i added the these plots to this post. if my thinking is wrong , let me know, i really want to understand this properly. @ jwl: i got some trapping in there mostly broadband, though - angled slat resonators on the side walls of my listening position, following Johns design. - 3 x 4" thick panels strapped over the back wall/ ceiling corner - 8 x 4" thick angled panels on the those ones closer to the back of the wall, suspended 4" off the ceiling - one big 4" thick panel to the back wall opposite my listening position what could i do to trap the low end properly? strap more panels across corners? or should i DIY some tuned bass traps? if handy i could do a 3d model of the locations of what i already did treat. i'm positive the other room introduced some artificial peaks, bass was more distorted and prominent, but it gave the sound some body that i miss now. the upper mids and highs sound really nice though, clear and detailed and very nice imaging. i haven't mixed anything in the new room yet, i did listen to some old mixes that sounded ok. if i listen to commercial releases i really miss the low end. i'm doing mostly pop/r&b/ hiphop/reggae stuff so i think a sub is a good addition anyway. first i wanna even out the rooms response though.