Need Help creating a better listening environment...

Hi, I have been reading a lot of posts on this forum and all i can say is that there is a massive knowlage base here!! I would like to ask for some advice; I am looking to impove my listening environment. I am restricted that i cannot permentaly modify the room and this room is also my bedroom so has to also contain my bed, TV, Wardrobe etc. I Have 2 Genelec 8020 monitors so im not talking about massive sound or bass here (although their not bad). I also don't have a mixer as i mix ITB (Pro Tools LE and Cubase). I suppose i am asking if some kind person could knock up come designs for possible layout ideas. I have made a floor plan in SketchUp and *all* measurements can be assumbed to be accurate. My room has 2 windows and 1 door. The most i can do to change my room would be too 'hang' objects from the ceiling and walls, but I will be unable to glue or otherwise permently fix any objects. As shown (hopefully) in the SketchUp file; two walls are external Brick and another two are internal brick with the last part being plasterboard (stardard insulation inside). I do not need isolation; just a balanced listening environment. I do realise that i am very withstricted due to the room having to be constantly functional as a bedroom, and also that i cannot change the room itself. Thanks for all your help, Tom

Hey! Maybe you can cover these windows and make some hanging or movable bass traps. Like this:

Hi, Thanks very much for your reply. Can I get away from having anything over the windows? I know the answer is likely to be a no. Also i assume the pannels in the corners would be Bass Traps and then some absorbant pannels and slot resonators on the sides? Would clouds help? Thanks very much for your help, Tom

tcdyer wrote:

Can I get away from having anything over the windows? I know the answer is likely to be a no. Also i assume the pannels in the corners would be Bass Traps and then some absorbant pannels and slot resonators on the sides? Would clouds help?

If you want symmestrical listening position, I would cover the windows. A good choise in the corners would be superchunks. They are pretty easy to build and there are lots of pics to help building them. Slot resonators are good choise. They are pretty expensive and difficult to build but they are worth it. Check out John's wall units. There are great plans for bass traps and slot resonators. Clouds would help a lot too. Good place for them is above your listening position. Add so much bass traps as you can. Hope this helps!

OK, I will build some SuperChunks for the corners (all 4), but can i fix then with just 4 screws? or should i use more? I am also going to make some slot resonators and some gobo stands to cover the window. Do you think 3*4'x8' on each side should be enough? If you look at the SketchUp file you will see that in the middle of my room i have a beam in the ceiling, should i have a superchunk on either side of this? or will it not cause a problem. This sounds like a lot of work, so before i begin, do you think this is the best solution to my problem? I am very happy with the sound i get from my Genelec 8020As, but i do not feel that i get precision that i should. Sorry if these are stupid questions but i could really do with a better place to try and master some of my tracks.

tcdyer wrote:

This sounds like a lot of work, so before i begin, do you think this is the best solution to my problem? I am very happy with the sound i get from my Genelec 8020As, but i do not feel that i get precision that i should.

Sounds like a problem with early reflections. You need to create a reflection free zone. Hence the need to cover the windows, otherwise you would have been able to create a symmetry by putting up something mirroring the windows reflection/absorption properties on the opposite parallel wall, which in this case is not an option. http://www.realtraps.com/rfz.htm Easiest is to build SuperChunks for the corners and panel traps (cloth covered rigid fiber glass or rock wool) to hang on the wall and in front of the window and a cloud above the listening area. Just my 2c.

tcdyer wrote:

If you look at the SketchUp file you will see that in the middle of my room i have a beam in the ceiling, should i have a superchunk on either side of this? or will it not cause a problem.

90 degree (or less) corners are usually degrading the acoustic qualities of a room. Easiest, I think, is to hang some panel traps to cover the corner if you want to be sure. SuperChunks are ok too.

No, these are not stupid questions. It's always good to be sure about these kind of things. Build all the bass traps and slot resonators as big as you just can. You'll get best results when you build those from floor all the way to ceiling.

tcdyer wrote:

...in the middle of my room i have a beam in the ceiling, should i have a superchunk on either side of this? or will it not cause a problem.

Yes it would help a bit. But I think that big "hole" is a bigger problem. Build some movable bass traps to cover that hole when you are mixing.

tcdyer wrote:

This sounds like a lot of work, so before i begin, do you think this is the best solution to my problem? I am very happy with the sound i get from my Genelec 8020As, but i do not feel that i get precision that i should.

Yes I think so. BUT I'm not a professional. There are lot of more intelligent people in this forum, like Gullfo and John. But I know that you will get a better listening enviroment even with that first plan. But if you build movable acoustics, you can always try to change the room and listen when it sounds better.

Would i have to put a back on the pannels over the windows? From what i have read, pannel traps generaly have no back - they just go flush to the wall. So by putting some over the windows, won't that make them less or more efficient at some frequencies compared to the ones hung on the oposite wall? Thanks for all the replies Tom

tcdyer wrote:

Would i have to put a back on the pannels over the windows? From what i have read, pannel traps generaly have no back - they just go flush to the wall. So by putting some over the windows, won't that make them less or more efficient at some frequencies compared to the ones hung on the oposite wall?

No, you really should hang traps distanced from the wall, say 2" of rigid fiberglass 2" from the wall. Can't imagine the difference being that great between hanging one in front of a wall and the other in front of the window to create an RFZ. But there's other people on the forum that know that better than I do. But my point is: better with absorption on both sides no matter what than non or just on one side. Not that I'm trying to stop you from building slot resonator if you feel up to the task. :D

I agree that any modifications can only improve things!! Thanks for your prompt and helpfull replies.

Not that I'm trying to stop you from building slot resonator if you feel up to the task.

From what i have read, they are very similar to building absorbers, only i add different sized wooden slots to the front. Is this correct? Is it that much more work? Thanks a lot Tom

When you are building slot resonators there are couple things you need to remember. It must be air thight, so it needs something in the back of it. Plywood is good. If you build it on the wall without the plywood back, you need to make it airthight with silicon etc. Symmetry is one of the difficult thing with slot resonators. If your gap between first and second slat is 6mm, it must be 6mm on another side of the room. That's not a good explanation but I hope you realised my point.

dahnielson wrote:

Not that I'm trying to stop you from building slot resonator if you feel up to the task.

tcdyer wrote:

From what i have read, they are very similar to building absorbers, only i add different sized wooden slots to the front. Is this correct? Is it that much more work?

VK wrote:

They are pretty expensive and difficult to build but they are worth it.

I guess it's more telling about my lazy and stingy personality. :lol:

I understand you point completely (or at least i think i do :P ) I think i am going to build absorbers, but in a way that they can easily be converted to resonators if need be. Thanks for all your help and advice. Tom

One good lesson from agile software development that you can live by in general is "do the simplest thing that can possibly work." That's my way of thinking.