ceiling for a slat resonater?

I'm going to be converting a detached garage to a recording space. I'm tight on room but do have a fair amount of empty space above me, will I get the benefits of a slat resonator wall from constructing a slat resonator ceiling?

Please read the second stickie in this forum. There are several important things detailed there. Andre

not sure what you're talking bout there. Are my speakers in a null? huh?

I think he means the second "announcement"... What to read before your first post. You can't really skip over anything like I did the first time. So if you already read it once, reread it a bit more carefully, and when you do what's asked, you'll find people become a bit more interested in helping :)

Thank you Pianojam. You are much more diplomatic than I am, Andre

whatever If you guys need advice on any number of subjects on which I am an expert you can find me at a few different forums on the net. I spend a bit of time in the evenings answering a few questions from those less knowledgeable than I on subjects ranging from music theory to old guitar amps to DSP programming on a linux box. I require no secret handshake. I am not an expert on acoustic design. It was my understanding that some people who post here are. The question was of general interest. I really don't have answers for most of the questions on that page. Size of the room depends on what design I end up going with. Design I end up going with depends in part on what I can do to get the low frequencies under control and how much floor space that eats up. I'm not asking anyone to design a space for me, just a pointer towards some relevant information would be nice. I find the snide responses I got to be disrespectful. thanks anyway.

PM, Perhaps it's not my place, but I don't think anyone meant any offense. It's just that it's very difficult to help without some basic understanding of the purpose and context of the project. It's like someone asking you "what kind of amp should I get?" You could suggest a basic, solid amp, but it may not be perfect for them. You'd probably ask a few questions before answering - "what style of music do you play?", "Is it for practice, recording or live gigging?", "What's your budget?" - you get the idea. Don't be offended. A lot of folks here really want to help, but we find we're more effective with a little more background.

Forgot to give you a quick answer... yes. A Slat resonator ceiling will provide the benefits of a slat resonator wall as long as it's built properly (many designs are posted among the forums here). I added one in my studio CR and it helped clean up the high mids considerably.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, I appreciate that. I generally try to do as much research as possible and educate myself before just throwing questions out to a community. I consider that a courtesy, by asking a single question and not spending several paragraphs detailing my particular situation I was trying to save everyone here some valuable time. In my perusal of this and many other sources of information I have learned a great deal about different techniques for getting the sound of a room under control, one thing I had not seen in plans was the use of a slat resonator on the ceiling. I was just wondering why that was. In not giving specifics I was not attempting to be rude in any way, rather I was attempting to limit my question to something very specific and of general interest. I was doing this as courtesy, I did not want to impose on anyone to do a great deal of elucidation on a subject I am prepared to research myself. Thank you for your time.

projectMalamute wrote:

not sure what you're talking bout there. Are my speakers in a null? huh?

No they are not, since the room dimensions have not been specified and construction never begun.

xSpace wrote:

projectMalamute wrote:

not sure what you're talking bout there. Are my speakers in a null? huh?

No they are not, since the room dimensions have not been specified and construction never begun.

See, just when I begin to think this is not an incredibly rude and cliquish little community you gotta go and be like that. Just what is the deal here? This is the kind of behavior one expects of a forum populated by 14 year olds discussing the ins and outs of their x boxes.

Sir, you are looking into a mirror. You came with a chip and you continue to belittle and show how little you give a shit about anyone here who responds outside of parameters that only you know. I am not a representative of Mr Sayers or his website just a user, so I can speak freely. The best available >worldwide< have access to your questions. If you really, really want answer that can help you, I'd step back for a few and give due respect for them. The alternative being, no one will show you even the slightest morsel of assistance. So I have but one thing left to say. "That's what you are but what am I?" ;)

projectMalamute wrote:

xSpace wrote:

No they are not, since the room dimensions have not been specified and construction never begun.

See, just when I begin to think this is not an incredibly rude and cliquish little community you gotta go and be like that.

All xSpace is doing is citing facts about what is clearly defined at the top of this forum's listing. Many people will give you as much info as you like here, but you have to give some level of information. Just take a peek through a few related posts and you'll see.

I generally try to do as much research as possible and educate myself before just throwing questions out to a community

Some communities have rules and regulations. :? My first question would be why would you want to do a slat resonator on the ceiling? They need to be tuned to be effective and they are very time consuming to install. Also it would be a first in my experience, so why go through all that work. Experimenting is great if it doesn't take a lot of time and money. My 2 cents Peace Tom

I sort of expected to be one of the few that recognized that the second sticky is "are my speakers in a null".

pianojam wrote:

I sort of expected to be one of the few that recognized that the second sticky is "are my speakers in a null".

LOL. Yeah, I think it's probably better to kindly post the link as a response to avoid any confusion.

projectMalamute - if you'd checked out Left Bank Studios either on my main page or via the Studios under Construction site you would have seen a slot resonator in the ceiling of the main recording room. cheers john

I know this thread has sort of gone down the toilet but I have a related question. My control room (under construction bit close...paint is on the walls). Has a multi angled ceiling that starts at 6ft in the front, changes pitch and slopes to 10 ft in the back, where it then slopes back down again. The room is 18ft by 22ft with a pine floor and 2 skylights. This high spot in the rear is at about 65% of the length of the room. It seems a certain candidate for a corner that needs some bass trapping. So I have been torn between building a slat resonator, and simply straddling the corner with some foil faced, then fabric wrapped 705. If I do decide to do the slat resonator how would I calculate the center frequency? Would I take a pink noise measurement after my real traps are up, or would I first try and make calculations based on cubic space in the room. Frankly, I think a slat resonator would look cool in this spot, but if it is not worth it I should save some cash and time building it. John, what made you decide to go the slat resonator route on that ceiling in the studio you designed?

you'll want all you treatments to be broadband as much as possible unless you've identified specific problems. whether porous or slat absorption. so for the slats, consider building a number of cavities which then have slats which cover a broad range rather than trying to target a specific center frequency (unless you know its a real problem and the location in the room is the correct spot for the treatment).

Interesting, I have read different opinions about the slat space, ranging from making them different, to having them be the same within 1/32 of an inch. It was my understanding that if they were not all the same, then the frequency does not get canceled out inside the resonator. What I am curious about is if the space behind the slats is variable (sloped), will that work making the resonator broadband. The spot I'm thinking of putting it will have variable depth behind the slats of wood (and 703).

Actualsizeaudio wrote:

I have read different opinions about the slat space, ranging from making them different, to having them be the same within 1/32 of an inch.

I don't know how to reply to "I have read" without links or references but here is an attempt. Slat space (between the slats), width, and depth behind the slats are all interrelated. You can not write about one without taking into consideration the other variables.

It was my understanding that if they were not all the same, then the frequency does not get canceled out inside the resonator.

The absorber works on absorption in the cavity between the slats. The inside air acts as a spring. What I am curious about is if the space behind the slats is variable (sloped), will that work making the resonator broadband. [/quote] No. The air in the resonator is what does the spring action. The formal equation for peak absorption uses the volume of the space. The form that we use is adapted for rectangular volumes specifically. Helmholtz used round, rectangular, square shaped vessels for his experiments. What matters is the volume, not the shape. Andre

Avare, You are very, very helpful. Grumpy as hell, but helpful. When I said I have read, I was referring to posts on this site, and information in books I have read. There have been many many posts, and several books. I have a business I'm running, a 5 month old baby, a house, and 2 dogs. I peruse this site maybe 3 times a week for info as I try and find time to finish my control room myself. I think it is fair enough to say "I have read" without links or footnotes. For instance, Gulfo in this thread was suggesting having variable space between the slats (slots), and Rod in his book on page 179 says they need to be within 1/16th of each other. I have also seen people on this board suggest different widths of slats in the same resonator, and others that say there is no benefit to that. I'm also still conused aboout the depth of the resonator varying as it pertains to the issue of wether or not the resonator is broadband or not. From Rod's book: "These traps can be constructed with a box depth that varies, making them a good means of acheiving broadband low frequency attenuation" That last statements implies that straddling a slot resonator over a corner is different than a flat one against a wall. This says to me that volume is not the only consideration. Now, everyone stop being so snappy at each other and go call your mother (or better yet, go have dinner with her).

Ahhh... I get it. Gulfo is suggesting a resonator with different cavities as opposed to one long one like I have envisioned. The different cavities then have different width slats. The slot resonator I am thinking of would be 18ft long. Seems like maybe a candidate for this idea. Thanks

and Rod in his book on page 179 says they need to be within 1/16th of each other /quote Does this read that the measurement used as the space between slats should be consistent to within a 16th of an inch? Or is one 16th of an inch the actual dimension suggested?

you want to vary the cavity, slats, slots, etc. to create a number of highly efficient slat resonators covering a wide a range as possible and position them to if they're sitting on mode locations etc that they are effective for that range of frequencies as well. Andre was right (even if he's been grumpy lately ;-))