Live room/rehearsal room project completed! Tuning to come!

[Kaj]

First comes first, thanks for this forum, it has kept me busy in a good way.

I want to post the layout clean from any treatment or design, in hope of getting inputs from others that might have just the right concept.

As for the many of us here on this forum, do we have a limited budget for the top of the rank studios. So we do not intend to build at that level. Noise isolations are not a major issue as we do not have any sensitive neighburs, (industrial estate).

What do we want to have? We are a seven guys playing together non commersial basis (blues/soul/rock), we have been blessed by our employer with this ex canteen porta cabin with two additional rooms added, and we are allowed to modify inside to make it fit for purpose. We would like to build accoustic treatment, angeled walls and possibly a small control room for demo recording with AW16g HD system. The company will spend some money on refurbish building with roof and some tuch-up of outside of building, we have some control of the the budget from the company and can by adding own work get more for the bucks. So we hope to have a accoustic well sounding room with a small controlroom within a few months from now, so your inputs are very much appreciated. I have added some pics from my drafted layout on what we have and what we plan to remove re walls..

thanks in advance for any help in design input.

[Kaj]

Attached the room available for your ideas.

Cheers

[Kaj]

Been a few weeks away from the small project.

Budget for this project is 4,000 Euros, and all work will be done by ourself, also the company that is the owner of the building will spend money on top of this, as long as it is reasonable amount. By the end of the day, we dont expect to build any top of the rank studio, but a place where we can make recordings of our music for a limited crowd (Us).

At least now we know that we get a bit of sponsoring from our company, the owner of the space we trying to convert to a suitable rehearsal room/LR.
The more I looking at the plot plan over the double porta cabins do I feel like we has to plan for a CR before finalize the accoustic treatment of the LR. The space we got are located in a industrial area and we has no intentions to be commercial, we going a bit budget, but not wasting efforts for nothing.

I have done a plan over the LR and a small CR in the SKP file where I focus on broadband absorbers, I have used the RT 60 calculator to see how much of the walls I need to treat after splaying two walls but have excluded the treatment of the ceiling, but planning to have about 4x 2,5 m2 or 8x 1,25 m2 slanted false ceiling placed averaged in the LR and also about 8-12 m2 of 50mm soft insulation as clouds also placed average in the rooms ceiling.

I have never treated a room as big as this and never a room built of wood and wooden boards as leafs. So maybe I could expect some help on the way to a good result.

Greatful for any help.

Unfurtunately is my skp file 4,22 mb and 1,9 mb as RAR too big, all the joists and studs I rekkon takes a lot of space.

[Kaj]

So there has been some progress, in removing and moving walls in the building. A big ventilation system for the dishwashing machine is decommissioned as well with the cable works for the fridges and other kitchen machines. A lot of tables and crap is removed and we can start to see the walls, so here we go with the latest pictures and the latest Plan for treatment and layout.

We will add another 13mm Gypsum board on the wall that is moved (south). All will be sealed with elastic sealant.

[Kaj]

[/b]The wall is down and the other wall is moved see Pics.
The wall that is moved will be coated this weekend with gypsum boards and we will start to erect studs the frameworks for the adsorbers along two walls.
As you can see do we have a support inserted where the wall is removed, this was decided by the company carpenter that have done the job so far, now is it time for us to start working.

Going to be fun this weekend!

[knightfly]

You can save quite a bit of time if you re-read this

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3231

and follow it as much as possible - it spells out how much detail is necessary for us to be able to suggest things for your project. If you take each BOLD point in the thread and explain as much as you know about it, it will help a lot.

Your budget seems pretty small for this large a space, so it's even MORE important that we know what your real needs are... Steve

[Kaj]

Thanks Steve,
I've read it several times, but (yes but) we have been negotiating with our company to get as much as possible sponsored by them, so the 4000 Euro will be splitted into not known proportions.

To reply in a quick way, its a moving target that we adjusting to daily, but getting closer to the core point every day. And we dont need a top of the rank studio, only an advice when we doing somthing bad and it wouldnt hurt to get a thumbs up when we doing good, in perspective to Accoustic treatment.

Fact of today: Company supply gypsum boards, laminate floor, studs, slats, mineral wool and glass wool for 100% of my planned design, so maybe the company will get a much higher bill than the 4000 Euros, anyway, I dont expect to have too much expences on building materials as we being lucky with a supportive company so far. So maybe the budget thing is not really an issue for us? I have no worries of the financial part as we do not try to insulate the building from noise either way. The future CR will be on our own cost and is not included in the budget above at all, we are 7 guys that have to agree before we move further down that road, and to be honnest with all of you readers of this thread, it is not easy to invest money in a space that you have no contractual only mutual agreement with the owner. We might get kicked out as soon as we change a manager! But thats just fact of life!


I'm convinced that my headache will come later with fine tuning/find suitable tools to measure the accoustic properties, I really need you there, and even harder could be to...........convince my band members of the need of investing more, thats another battle to come.


Finally, we just try to build a better sounding room for rehearsal and to be able to use as a live room, not for commercial purpose...only for the members and the friends among us.

I hope that my update of my thread is make it more clear for all readers,
Steve, you are not arrogant, neither am I! I'll update this thread with all important information as I can predict or I get it on hand (guess I'll update too often than not). The biggest problem is the target group for whom do I write? Thats where I get lost in transition!! But I'll pick it up.

Thanks again, and Steve I do respect you and appreciate your efforts to help us (me) with things that fly over our heads.

Cheers
Kaj

[knightfly]

OK, you just answered one of the questions on the list - the one about sound isolation. Basically, you're saying you don't care about that - if this is true, and neither does anyone else, then a single layer of wallboard will make your job easier when it's time to make it sound GOOD. This, because the single layer will keep less bass in the room and make it easier to tune the room with less material.

Even tho I referred you to that link, it definitely was NOT to accuse you of being arrogant in any way - in fact, you've been just the opposite - VERY respectful, and I thank you. I only referred you to that thread for the different things that need to be covered so we can help you get the best for your efforts.

I didn't see from your pix whether your building uses "normal" frame construction or something a bit different - sorta looks like I'm used to, but I need you to specify - what size are the framing studs, which way do they sit, how far apart are they, and what kind of wall covering is on the OUTSIDE of your building? (A simple sketch in windows' Paint program would tell this fine) - something like this... Steve

[Kaj]

Thanks Steve,
I'll try to clarify what I need the Gypsum boards for:
The wall that is moved towards our neighburs canteen, (only used during office hrs) and we only play evenings and or weekends so no clash!

Facts for that wall only:
Wall is built on 2x3" studs OC 600mm, 12mm plywood board-50mm gasswool-13mm gypsum board.

The wall as you can see of the picture is not full height, it is jointed with a wood beam, and is not air tight.

I want to add a additional layer on that wall from floor to ceiling and seal with TREMCO elastic caulk. Why? To add mass to the skinny wall and make it air tight for my broadband absorber.

What about the other walls? It is built on 2x4" studs OC 600mm and cavity is filled with something?? the wall is not sounding hollow when I knocking between the studs, I would assume that its glass wool.

The inner walls are covered with a what looks like wood board (will confirm), and they are 10-12mm thick (to be confirmed). It has been used as dish washing room and I would expect the board to be somehow fit for this purpose. I will take a knife and get a sample.

Outer walls, covered with same type of board on the inside only and framework is 2x4".
From inside out MaM, MDF-plastic film-Glasswool-tar paper (wind protection)-air gap-21mm plank not sure the size of studs for the green wood panel but it is common to use 2x2" for this, this is an assumption but I'll try to find out, if its important.

So overall I expect the bass to travel pretty easy through thoose walls, and beleive that I will have less problem with room modes in Low Frequences.

Untreated room rings long time when clapping my hands, in midrange and a flutter between the 6 leafs.

Ceiling coverd with same kind of board as well, but I cant confirm whats above it, but assume, again! much more insulation and more solid joists.

The floor is elevated , from app 400mm to 1000 mm as it is a slope. What it is built of is not known by me by the moment.

Ventilation is ducted and will not be restricted by the treatment of the room.

Will bring my reading glasses to see what I can dig out. Or even better use the camera. but for sure I'll try my very best to find out answers on your raised questions, and make a nice simple drawing and post ASAP.

Tomorrow we start with the gypsum and frame work for absorbers.
We still havent the slats or insulation. This is expected mid next week, so I will have something to do.


Cheers
Kaj

[Kaj]

Think the pictures speak by themselves.

The ceiling is 12mm MDF + plastic-film and joists cant see anything above that.

Secondly, The walls is all 2x4" with 12mm MDF, Insulated cavity 100mm, 12mm MDF on 2x4" studs. all walls OC 600mm. See my incorporated drawing in one of the pics.

The only exceptions from above are new wall with gypsum and 2x3" studs and outer walls see pics for gypsum wall and vent-duct opening.

Cheers
Kaj

[Kaj]

Hi again,
I've made a simple drawing in Paint and merged it with the Picture. The construction is very much standard here in Sweden.

We will put laminate floor on top of a foam mat that will level out any small uneven surfaces.

[Kaj]

Insulation arrived, Tomorrow time for putting on the long sleeves(normally we have this dress code this time of the year) and get into action. This thread will be in parallel with the thread http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7514
as I still have some issues re acoustics to be resolved.

But anyway, I managed to get a few pics, that show the angle for the single joist at the knee of the splayed Helmholtz absorber walls.

And the pile of Insulation, too.

Tomorrow a bass trap to be built, and get the insulation in place in the broadband absorber, gonna be fun!
Cheers
Kaj

[Kaj]

Hi, started with the bass trap and the Helmholtz absorber yesterday and its moving forward, here are som pic that illustrate the work done so far.
But, I did not get the Glasswool, they delivered acoustic 37kg/m3 mineralwool slabs 90mm thick, I use this indicated yellow on the Sketchup pic.

I really hope this dont defeat the function of the absorber.

Cheers
Kaj.

[Kaj]

Another day is passed and I had some time with my son and did majority of the x-mas gifts.
Below you can see pictures of installation of slabs and the tools we used, have a nice time when going to Africa for the machete.

Kaj

[VSpaceBoy]

Great pix!