I don't expect you to understand...

Get your "what mic?" frustration or "have you heard" out here. The language could get real okka in here mate.

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barefoot
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I don't expect you to understand...

Post by barefoot »

giles117 wrote:I don't expect you to understand and unless you are ready to give your life to Jesus Christ and receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, you will never understand what that means so I would be be-laboring a point........ I am not here to condemn anyone or knock anyone, I just realize unless you have what I have, you can never understand and know what I understand and Know.
Hmmm... I imagine, if I weren't such an easygoing guy, I would take all that as a rather thinly veiled condescension.

I understand, though. I must admit that I sometimes struggle with my own vulgar instincts to immediately scorn those who choose to loose their senses in little worlds of superstition.

Oops! Sorry, I guess I'm really not so good at suppressing my instincts.
Thomas Barefoot
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Post by Guest »

Never asked you to suppress. I recognize a few things having had my personal relationship with Jesus Christ for over 27 years.

There are those who will believe and be changed and those who will walk away from what God has provided me and them through the sacrifice of his son.

It is not a condescending thing.

I can only imagine how my life would be without the Lord.

See he offered something as simple as Peace....Meaning Quietness, rest and Safety for those who would dare to trust in him. Everyone else has to deal with stuff whichever way they can.

But, unless we know how to Love others none of this means anything.

I am like the child who defends his Daddy. when people miss speak my God, I respond. I have no desire to beat them over the head with bats, just tell the truth. If they still reject the information I have to offer, all I can say is Woe unto you who rejects the Son of Man.

And I do commend you on voicing your feelings.. The Bible says in Revelations 3:15-16

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

In other words God is expressly saying to mankind (Specifically his people) I'd rather you be one way or the other, but a person who is in the middle I will spit him out of my mouth.

So I respect your Strong opinions. Many people need to be strong for what they believe, even if it is wrong. The Apostle Paul was a great example. In the early days oif the "christian" church, he had orders by the Jewish council to murder as many people that professed Jesus Christ as possible. It wasn't until he met God that he realized the error of his ways.

So I would be a fool to discount your strong insitincts. Even if they are wrong. Ultimately that is between you and God. All I can do is give information as that is what I was called to do when I made him my God.

There are christians that just wanna make it to heaven as it were but are not really sold out for Jesus. You couldn't tell if they were saved or not.

But like Joshua said when the Children of Israel had crossed over into their promised Land.. Joshua 24:15

But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River (In Egypt), or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD ."


Bryan Giles
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Post by giles117 »

This thing made me a guest today Ooops... :)
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Post by John Sayers »

I don't want to get into this :roll:
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I always think it is interesting to see how an apparently innocent comment can devolve into a heated discussion of religious beliefs. You know that old saying about conversations in the workplace, how anything goes EXCEPT discussion about religion or politics.

We, as part of our human nature, are always looking for a way to rationalize the way we believe about something, and more often than not, our personal beliefs about things clash with those of others. For many, they characterize their beliefs as faith, admitting that they don't have the ultimate answers and have decided to trust that what someone else has said IS true until absolutely proven to be false. For others, nothing can be believed on face value and must be proven, either through undisputable scientific proof or through personal experience. Either way you go, though, there is a certain amount of faith that has to be part of each person's belief system whether they admit it or not. For the Christian, their faith is based on what they perceive to be the absolute truth of what the Bible teaches. For a scientist, their faith is that the scientific data is valid, that the methods used in collecting, analyzing, and formulating the conclusions are indisputably correct.

And either way you go, the beliefs that are built up around these ideologies will tend to clash with one another because each one is different and the faith of each person in their belief system is strong.

While my personal belief system is very close to Bryan's, I understand where Thomas is coming from, also (after all, I had to go through all the scientific training as part of my pursuit of an engineering degree). I hope this expression of beliefs won't detract from our opportunities to learn from one another about this passionate hobby of mine (recording and studio design).

Thanks,
Darryl.....
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Post by DDev »

There must be something wierd with having to re-login when going to the Wombat hole. Like Giles, I came up as a guest in my diatribe.

Darryl.....
(DDev)
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Post by cadesignr »

Good day gentleman, I wake up to another gorgeous day.
I have decided, because of Brians statement regarding lukewarm expressions of ones beliefs, to state my own.
Jesus Christ is my heavenly father. Plain and simple. I don't preach. I don't like to be preached to. To each his own. I do know this though. Science will NEVER prove or disprove the existance of my god. That is impossible. And, I do not need it for he has already provided it for me. I cannot offer quotes from the bible, or other tidbits of faith oriented documents or prophecy. The only thing I CAN say, is he is my healer and provider. Miracles come in small packages, and I have recieved mine. I am alive.
My prayers go with you Thomas. Whether you think you need them or not.
Rick
alright, breaks over , back on your heads......
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Post by giles117 »

I am glad to hear these responses.

I "got saved" in 1976.

I was and still am a heavy lover, believer and studier of scientific things (for lack of a better way to describe it)

I have never seen science as a way to disprove God or challenge the Bible but as a way to learn more about what God has created.

Cad, I have to say this.. and realize this is also a guy who spent 4 years in bible school to become a sound engineer.

I was called as a child to the music industry by God and played for 8 years. Finally once being exposed to Audio Engineering, I "found" what my contribution to the Body of Christ is. Sound engineering education and training.

The 2 in my world do mix, God and Science. what we do here is a science. and I personally use these acoustical sciences to further the gospel.

But back to my point.. CAd, we were made ministers.

Ephesians 4:11

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

I wanna hone in on that phrase, for the work of the ministry.

We are all here on this board because one man chose to be a giver and share his knowledge of studio construction. I am here because I learned so many things prior to this board and through Thomas, Steve and John some things were confirmed and others clarified for me.

Well that is the Job of a believer. We are MADE ministers from the moment we receive Christ becasue we have received a special gift that God wants to be shared to all mankind. Romans 10:14 says:

How then shall they(the lost) call on him(Jesus) in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him(Jesus) of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher(You and i who call ourselves saints/children of God)?


Well if you don't Minister the free gift of God's saving grace how do you expect them to get what you got?

No different than what John has done in this forum. He freely gave what was given to him (he may have worked 30 years to get it but he got it and he is making it available to us.) We in essence sow tithes and offerings (make a donation) into this forum so that he can more effectively "preach" the word concerning studio design, construction and acoustics, etc. so that all of us wanting something greater in their sonic lives my receive the benefits of his sacrifice.

So How much more shall we minister to the lost the things of God so that they can receive what we have received. That my friend is the ULTIMATE expression of Love.

We talk about giving to God, but what is the ultimate gift to God? To win a lost soul. The bible says he that wins souls is wise and it also says that there is rejoicing in the presence of angels when one person is brought into the kingdom of God.

Well I may come off a little preachy, but after what God has been faithful to deliver me from and through I would be a fool to not share what he has done for me in hopes that someone would take the step and trust God and receive the same gifts he bestowed upon me.

Bryan Giles

And these three remain: faith, hope, Love, these three; but the greatest of these is Love.

If what I believe is not accepted by others, No biggie, let's keep building studios and mixing great songs.
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Post by barefoot »

For a scientist, their faith is that the scientific data is valid, that the methods used in collecting, analyzing, and formulating the conclusions are indisputably correct.
Yes, we all must work on faith. But scientific faith is a rather different brand of faith than religious faith. Religious faith is based on books, hearsay, feelings, reports of miracles, etc. And these reports vary from person to person, religion to religion. Who am I to believe? The Buddhists? The Christians? The Hindus? The Jews? The Muslims? The Taoists? ...????? They all have their writings. They all have their "evidence". They all have their epiphanies. They all have their deep feelings. And they all hold their faith based on these things.

Scientific faith is a little different. It's based in the mundane. An apple falls from a tree. A meatball falls off the table. An injured bird falls from the sky. Things fall. I have direct experience with this. I've seen it many times, over and over. Everyone I talk to, whether they are Christian, Hindu, or some other religion, reports the same thing. Every history book I've ever read reports that things fall to the ground when they're dropped. So, I have faith that the next time I drop something, it going to fall. I don't have any way of proving this is absolutely. But I'd be willing to bet the farm that this basic principle will hold.

Occasionally some people report incidents where all the basic, time tested principles of everyday experience don't hold. They say someone walked on water, raised the dead, or floated into the sky. What am I to make of this? I've never seen anything like this unless I was dreaming or on some mind altering substance. I have, however, had experience with people lying. I've done it myself. I have experience with people misunderstanding what the saw, felt or heard. I've done it myself. I have experience with people hallucinating. I've done it myself.

So, when I weigh the evidence between reported exceptions and the apparent rules I see every day, I choose to believe in the rules.
I hope this expression of beliefs won't detract from our opportunities to learn from one another about this passionate hobby of mine (recording and studio design).
Of course! I think everyone here agree on this one! :D
Thomas Barefoot
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Post by giles117 »

Good end to a healthy informational exchange. I will say one thing however. All those other religions are based on works, and Christianity.... TRUE Christianity is based on Love.

We were commanded to Love one another.

Not get along, not pacify, not hangout with to get what we want, but to Love One Another. If you do deep study you will find this common thread in other religions, there is no true love in those religions. I Know some will refute (We are taught to love makind, and to get along with nature, etc...) Is that really what they teach or is that what they sell you to get into theri religious sect.

See Real Christianity hates wrong, but not people. We have no reason to KILL someone because of their religious beliefes, but you go to China and Christians are murdered for professing Jessus and not their "state" religion. Same in Africa. That is not Love, that is hate.

The bible says the Fear of the Lord is to Hate Evil, Not People.

Humanism, which is a simple summarization of those other religions, puts faith in man, his limited ability, or some other man, not an unseen God. And they stress servitude to this man and works to be justified.

God stresses Loving Him, and Loving Others. Freely we have received and freely we must give this same Love amd Mercy that he showed us. God said we are Justified by Faith Not of works, I hope that helps you as you run across the various expressions of religion. How much do they Love one another and others.

Simply put, we as Christians will not receive from God if we fail to walk in Love towards are fellow man.

Cause the bottom line is if you do not love, you have nothing.

Bryan Giles

Ok, I might be done. but let's keep building Studios, we all agree on that. Yes Thomas we do.....
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Post by barefoot »

giles117 wrote:I will say one thing however. All those other religions are based on works, and Christianity.... TRUE Christianity is based on Love.
But surely you're aware that EVERY deeply religious person professes to believe in the One True Faith, right? You're hardly unique in this regard. And from my perspective, I see little difference between pious believers in any religion, yours included. I find things that I admire, distain, aspire towards, and laugh at - in all of them.

I can understand where you're coming from, though. I personally believe that my daughter is the most wonderful child to ever grace the face of the earth - the entire universe even! Nobody can tell me otherwise. Objectively I know that other parents feel the same way about their children, and that my beliefs about my daughter don't represent some "universal truth". But this doesn't make it any less "real" in my own heart.

The deep love of a child, an idea, or a god is a personal truth. The principle behind apples falling from trees is a universal truth (scientific caveat: as far as we can tell from the present evidence).

Thomas
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Post by cadesignr »

I personally believe that my daughter is the most wonderful child to ever grace the face of the earth

I pray you never have to face a delima whereby you have no hope. Even in science. I have. That is why the Lord is my God almighty.

Peace
Rick


alright, breaks over , back on your heads......
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Post by barefoot »

Actually, there have been some very dark moments in my life when I thought I wouldn't make it through. I never found God or religion in those times.

[Btw, I used to believe in God when I was a young child. It's what I was born into and I didn't know better at the time. But I think I must have held doubts early on. My siblings and I went to Sunday school at an Assembly of God church. I remember being skeptical of many of the bible stories. I would raise my hand and asking questions like: "How could they fit all the animals on one boat? Where were the dinosaurs? Why does God kill?"... They weren't met with much appreciation. I'm not sure where I got my skepticism. The rest of my family have never seemed to question their beliefs as far I can tell. ]

Oh, I also thought of something else relating to Bryan's statement "All those other religions are based on works, and Christianity.... TRUE Christianity is based on Love." Bryan, you might try looking at other religions more closely. You'll find this statement simply isn't true. At least in all of the major religions you will find sects that base "salvation" on what one thinks and feels, rather than what one does. Furthermore, the notion of a loving God goes back much further than Christianity. I think Zarathustra was one of the first to introduce the concept, in Mesopotamia around 1500BC. Many Hindus and Buddhists also believe that enlightenment (eternal salvation) has nothing to do with "works". They believe enlightenment is attained solely by evolving ones heart and mind into a state of universal love, acceptance, and oneness with God, everyone, and everything.

Take a look around. There's beauty everywhere... in many colors! :)

Thomas
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Post by John Sayers »

I believe in god - he believes in me - no bible, no religion, no additional belief systems required.

I've read all the books and no religion has ever convinced me that you need some go-between like Jesus or Buddah between you and god. You can still find god without reading the bible - in fact I would suspect the bible has caused more people to NOT find god than it has people find god.
More people have killed in the name of god that have not IMHO. It happens everyday in Iraq.

Both Mohammud and Jesus taught forgiveness if you are to believe the books written about them - NOTE - they didn't write them, others did after they died.- yet I don't see any forgiveness from the christians, nor the Islamics. Abraham taught Thou shalt not kill yet both christians and muslims believe in Abraham as a prophet yet once again they are out there killing each other.

It's pure hypocrisy IMO.

cheers
john
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Post by giles117 »

barefoot wrote:[Btw, I used to believe in God when I was a young child. It's what I was born into and I didn't know better at the time. But I think I must have held doubts early on. My siblings and I went to Sunday school at an Assembly of God church. I remember being skeptical of many of the bible stories. I would raise my hand and asking questions like: "How could they fit all the animals on one boat? Where were the dinosaurs? Why does God kill?"... They weren't met with much appreciation. I'm not sure where I got my skepticism. The rest of my family have never seemed to question their beliefs as far I can tell. ]
It is a shame they were unable to answer your questions, but see relationship with God opens the Bible to a reader and it is more that just words on a page. As Paul wrote, the Letter kills, but the Spirit makes alive. And you should have been skeptical. I questioned my beliefs from age 14 till age 19 that is when my introductory experience with God was met with answers to bring me into a more complete knowledge of him. But the difference was I asked him (God) to show me these things cause, just like you, my parents and sunday school teachers could not answer those questions. I Chose to read the book for myself and asked God to explain these things to me.

Oh, I also thought of something else relating to Bryan's statement "All those other religions are based on works, and Christianity.... TRUE Christianity is based on Love." Bryan, you might try looking at other religions more closely. You'll find this statement simply isn't true. At least in all of the major religions you will find sects that base "salvation" on what one thinks and feels, rather than what one does. Furthermore, the notion of a loving God goes back much further than Christianity. I think Zarathustra was one of the first to introduce the concept, in Mesopotamia around 1500BC. Many Hindus and Buddhists also believe that enlightenment (eternal salvation) has nothing to do with "works". They believe enlightenment is attained solely by evolving ones heart and mind into a state of universal love, acceptance, and oneness with God, everyone, and everything.
I studied those religions back when I was in my early 20's I spent an entire year studying these religions. See false doctrine is designed to be deceptive. The Bible says Satan Appears as an Angel of Light. Whose purpose is to deceive those whose eyes are covered from the truth. And it would take long long messages for me to show the various pointed differences between Jehovah (The God of the Hebrews whom I serve) verses Buddah and other Gods.

And let's do this one better than that, Jehovah according to the timeline of the bible is at least 5000 years BC. See when you really study Christianity, The "Jewish" Heavenly father is the one we serve. The Difference is when God Sent his Son Jesus, the Jews rejected him because they knew him, and in Jesus' Own words, A Prophet is not without honor but in his own country. They were familiar with him and thus could not receive from him.

There is more, but I will bite off one at a time.

I Know my God through personal experience and studying his word. There was a time I hated him but when I got to understand his true character and not what some uneducated, unexperienced preacher had to say, I realized who he really was and everything he does is based on his love for us.

James says it this way 1:16-17

Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

That is the God I Serve. He is not in the business of teaching me lessons....

James 1:13

When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Take a look around. There's beauty everywhere... in many colors! :)

Thomas
I See his handiwork all the time

Psalms 19:1

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows forth his handywork.


And like you, My Daughters are also the most precious things on the earth. They melt my heart and like any good Daddy I seek to spoil them.

Bryan Giles
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