John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

I have a man coming around to solder my wall box up and put xlr connectors on the other end of the snake to go directly into my desk mic pres and outboard mic pres.

I have the following cables running through the wall and connetors on my wall box.

Wall box = 12 xlr inputs, 5 1/4 stereo plugs

Cable= 2 x 8 channel belden multicore and 2 x instrument / gtar cables

The plan is:

snake one = 8 xlrs direct from wall box into the desk

snake two = 5 xlrs direct from wall box into mic pres then into patchbay to the desk. This leave three channels open which I want to use for monitoring. These will be return sends from the headphone amp into three of the 1/4 jacks on the wall box for plugging in cans.

Instrument cable = these will be direct lines from studio to the remaining 1/4 wall box plugs. This is so I can play gtar in the studio and have amps in the live room connected by running a 1/4 cable out of the wall box into the gtar amps input.

Does this sound OK or does anyone see any problems with this setup?

Is it OK to wire return headphone sends down the same multicore cable as mic pres going the other way?

Would I be better to use the instrument cable for the headphone sends and use the patchbay and multicore for the direct gtar lines (this would mean one more connection in the singnal path)

Thanks, hope like hell this all makes sense!!

JohnG

John
I am doing the same thing.
I figure since I do this all the time with a live band (sending and receiving in the same snake) with no issues I feel fairly certain there will be no problem. I also realize that sending the monitor signal at line level is probably better than an amplified signal like one from a headphone amp. But on the other hand a headphone amp generally is only putting out a small amount of wattage.

Again this is a toally unsubtatiated gut feel. I figure I am going to try it. If I have any issues.... I'll try something different.

Tom

snake two = 5 xlrs direct from wall box into mic pres then into patchbay to the desk. This leave three channels open which I want to use for monitoring. These will be return sends from the headphone amp into three of the 1/4 jacks on the wall box for plugging in cans.

John,

Is the headphone signal amplified or just a line level signal? If it's line level, I don't really see any issues, but if you're running an amplified signal, I would suggest separating w/ another cable for the amplified signal. Otherwise you may have the problem of "crosstalk" so to speak through the cables, and using mic pre's, it only amplifies it coming back to tape.

Are you using some type of headphone boxes in the studio, or just plugging headphones directly into the panels? Will they be controlling volume, or you?

Most setups I've seen (as far as an amplified system), including what I've run conduits for in my studio, is to use Male XLR connectors on the panel (this way you don't accidently plug a microphone in) and you can use regular mic cables to connect to headphone boxes.

How many sends/mixes do you plan to have?

Hi There

"Is the headphone signal amplified or just a line level signal?"

The signal path is:

desk aux send - 4channel headphone amp - wallbox 1/4trs plug - headphones. So I guess the signal will be amplified?.

"Are you using some type of headphone boxes in the studio, or just plugging headphones directly into the panels? Will they be controlling volume, or you? "

I will be contolling the volume from the control room with the headpone amp. You will plug headphones direct into the wall box TRS plugs.

"How many sends/mixes do you plan to have?"

Usually one or two max aux sends from the desk. Most of the time it will just be one.

How can there be cross talk if the individual cables are sheilided in a multicore?

JohnG

How can there be cross talk if the individual cables are sheilided in a multicore?

When you're using a large power amp, especially something more than 25-50watts, you'll get crosstalk. For your setup, using the 4 channel headphone amp, they usually don't output more than a watt or two. So you'll probably be fine.

How far from the wall will your musicians be playing? How many at one time in one room?

Hi Aaron,

My tracking room is really small. The longest run from the wall box to a set of cans would only be about 14feet.

That's good news on the cross talk - its a Behringer powerplay 4 channel headphone amp if that helps you determine output.

90% of the stuff I do will be one musician at a time - the rooms to small for full bands. drums and bass or two singers at a time would be max. I thought I would just set up for three sets of cans just incase one line goes down or something special comes up.

Is my plan for instrument lines from control to tracking room OK? I want to have the ability to have gtar players in the control room and amp(s) in the live room.

my signal path would be:

gtar lead into balanced TRS patchbay - instrument wall cable run from back of the patchbay into TRS wallbox plug - gtar lead from wallbox TRS plug into gtar amp.

I am a bit concerned that I have quite alot of connection breaks that may effect quality of the signal and also alot of balanced signals turning into un-balanced turning into balanced because of the balanced patch bay - not sure if this is a good idea.

I suppose I could flag the patchbay totally and put get a female TS plug on the end of the wall cable to put the gtars lead dirct into but the patch bay would keep everything alot more tidy. Your thoughts on this one? how do studios usually run gtars from the control room to amps in the live room?

Thanks

JohnG

I'm a little short on time at the moment and may not be back online until Tuesday, but I'll try and pop in and anwer the questions. I'm getting ready to do a major install.

Thanks.

No problem
thanks
JohnG

Is my plan for instrument lines from control to tracking room OK? I want to have the ability to have gtar players in the control room and amp(s) in the live room.

my signal path would be:

gtar lead into balanced TRS patchbay - instrument wall cable run from back of the patchbay into TRS wallbox plug - gtar lead from wallbox TRS plug into gtar amp.

I would try and stay away from the patchbay if you can. Especially since the lines are unbalanced.

Typically, what I've seen done w/ Guitar cable runs from CR to LR, they're either on a separate wall plate or even mounted onto a single rackspace panel. I've seen everything from Monster Cable to regular guitar cable being used. Since this is unbalanced and not shielded, there's usually two problems that arrise from this. Either hum from being to close to electrical, or if you're near a broadcast tower, you'll get RF.


Be sure to run them as home runs to each tracking room. Another option, instead of running a guitar signal, keep the amp head in the CR, and the amp in the tracking room. That way the player still has control over adjustments. (that's if you're using the monster cable scenario), or you can do both.




And one more thing about doing electric guitars in the control room...get rid of any CRT monitors. If you haven't experienced it, you will.

Hi there,
I have decided to just run a seperate long gtar cable through the wall with normal connectors each end.
This way the signal path will have the least breaks in it.
I am going to use the two gtar cables I already installed as headhphoe sends to keep them away from the multicore - this will now only be for mic signals coming from the live room.
Thanks
JohnG