John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hello. I have watched with amazement at some of the advice passed along on this forum, and now have a question (or two) of my own.

I recently moved from the "bedroom in my house" studio to a rented apartment around the corner. It was a good price, and the idea was that I could bring artists in from outside, as I wouldn't have to worry about strangers in the house while my kids were in bed asleep, etc.

I rented a 1 DK, which in Japan stands for 1 room, DK for Dining/Kitchen.
I was able to get a Yamaha Avitecs sound booth from a friend and moved it into the room for tracking, vocals, etc. It is pretty decent, with a nice glass sliding door and about 25db of cut.

The problem is that the control room needs to be in the Dining/Kitchen. The space is fairly small, and because I am renting it I can't do any major construction. There are two windows, and the kitchen portion in the back of the room.

I am thinking about plugging the windows with some of the bass trap designs that I have read about, but I have yet to find "rock wool" at a Japanese DIY shop. Would regular fibreglass work for that?

I have also recently bought a bunch of Sonex Foam to try and deal with standing waves, reverb, etc.

I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out how to deal with this room. Where to place things, etc.

I have:
14 sheets of 2" pyramids (60cm x 60cm panels)
8 sheets of 4" pyramids (60cm x 60cm panels)
6 sheets of 3" classic (60cm x 120cm panels)

The room is 260cm wide by 350 long, and 238cm high.
There are two windows at the front and right (when I am facing down the room), with a sliding door on the left (which I have removed to make eye contact with the person in the Yamaha booth. There is also a "kitchen unit" at the back of the room that I would LOVE to pull out, but unfortunately needs top remain.

My goals are to create a room that will let me create mixes that translate well out of the studio. We hope to buy a house in 12-18 months time, and having just spent 600 on the Sonex stuff I would prefer not to have to spend more that 200 or so more. When we move I hope to build a bigger and better space.

I am using Yamaha NS10 to monitor, on a homemade desk.

If anyone can help me with acoustics and best location of speakers and desk that would be appreciated. I read a few articles (are my speakers in a null), but was a bit unsure how to proceed with the read outs of the excel file it referenced.

Thanks to anyone that offers help. It is truly appreciated. Not many people willing to help the "foreigner" with this stuff here in Japan, so these sites are an indispensable tool for a fellow like me.

Here is an image:

Aloha and welcome to the forum, dstole

Here's a diagram from the SAE site: http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html that explains placement of acoustic treatments.

You may need to look into corner traps for help with low end absorption. Plans are here: http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm

The rear absorber and corner traps could be built as portable units to allow for entry, and placed in position for mixdown.

If you care to, here's a couple of threads to check out pertaining to temporary, portable acoustic treatments.
http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ght=#15598
http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4091

Hope this helps,

Aloha

I checked those links, and the work you have done on your own space is amazing. I wish that I was able to invest that much time and energy, but as I mentioned we are hoping to buyt a house in 12-18 months, so i am looking for a quicker fix now, and then can spend the tiome and ebergy when we move in a year or so...

Any suggestions on some quick fix type things I can do with this room. I am especially concerned that the "kitchen" stuff at the back is gonna mess with my sound, and that the removed sliding doors (I am in Japan) will cause an uneven response.

Look forward to hearing back.

Will any type of Fibreglass insulation work for teh corner traps, or does it have to be rockwool. have never seen the rockwool here in Japan.

Aloha dstole,

Thanks. The units and the room turned out much better than I expected. The dfference they make is amazing.

Will any type of Fibreglass insulation work for teh corner traps, or does it have to be rockwool. have never seen the rockwool here in Japan.

What you need to ask for is either rigid fiberglass, such as Owens Corning 703 (un-faced) or rockwool, mineral wool, somewhere between 2 to 4 pounds per cubic foot density; Johns Manville and Knauf also make similar products. - Steve (Knightfly)

The areas I treated were (in order):
1) front wall corner absorbers/soffit
2) side wall absorber units
3) overheaad/cloud units
4) rear wall absorbers

Aloha

All I found for Japan was this

http://www.glass-fiber.net/

It's the home page for Glassfiber Association of Japan - what you need to find is ANY of the "wool" insulations in 3 to 4 PCF density (Pounds per Cubic Foot), which translates to 48 to 64 kG/m^3 -

If you can find a source, you want 75 to 100mm thickness in all possible corners (including ceiling corners) placed diagonally ACROSS the corners, in that small a room I'd say .6 meter wide (2 feet)

HTH... Steve

http://www.rwa.gr.jp/HtmlFiles/Seihin.html

Does the 3rd one down look right to you? It makes mention of it being for sound instillations...

The picture looks right, can you read Japanese? IF so, does it mention anything about density? Steve

Thanks for your help with this. My apologies in taking so long to write back, but it has taken a while to track down a maker and supplier of this stuff.

I found a company that will ship me rockwool, and I am curious about 1 think before I place a final order.

in making the broad band absorbers for the corner, i wonder if the wooden frames are needed. The company I am looking at has a product where the rockwool is covered in "rock cloth". They say that it can be attached to the wall with a pin, or with plastic rails they have to join multiple panels together. Some of the threads I have read say that the wood of the frame can steal some of the absorption, so I thought that a non wood solution might be a good way to go.

These panels look like this...
http://www.nittobo.co.jp/kw/rf/600G7.html

the details on them are
25 or 50 mm thick, 605mm wide, and 910 mm long.
they have a density of 60kg/M3

They also sell the regular Rockwool, in rolls or sheets, so if frames are better than I could go that way, but this seems pretty convenient, as these ones are cut and covered.

Oh, there was one last thing. They only sell them by the box, so I am wondering if I should go with all the same thickness. The 25mm thickness comes with 20 in the box, and the 50mm comes with 10. Should I combine the two thicknesses around the room? Or would 1 (50 I imagine) be enough.

For those in Japan (that can read Japanese), http://www.pialiving.com/ looks like they have many areas of sound and acoustic materials covered. If you don't speak Japanese PM or mail me and I will help you out.

Thanks again. I appreciate all the help.
Leon

Well the panels I referred to in my last post ( http://www.nittobo.co.jp/kw/rf/600G7.html ) arrived and I used a couple of them to fill in a window on my right. The next step is to get the broadband absorbers into the corners as per suggested. I read in another post that the squarer your room the thicker the corners should be. I have a pretty small, and nearing square room, so I was wondering if there becomes a point when you have too much thickness? I am thinking of placing a 5cm and a 25cm panel back to back for about 3 inches thick.

1 quick question: Again in another post there was mention not to put anything hard on the back. As the front of these panels are covered in "rock cloth", and open backed, I was thinking of placing them back to back. Would the layer of "rock cloth" at the back cause problems?

Also, I notice (as in the accoustic panle photo essay) that the panels don't go all the way to the top of the wall...is it best that they go to the ceiling?

Thanks again all.