So how small is too small?

[ap]

I'm starting with a stand-alone 13.5'X 19.5'(4.1mx5.9m) garage. The scaled pic here is of my plan to divide it into a control room and tracking room. The tracking room would be room within a room design, thus the thicker walls represented in the pic. The resulting inner dimensions of this room would be around 12 feet for the walls at the left and top of the pic. The control room would be 6 feet at the front and around 10 at the rear. The ceilings could be almost 8' depending on how I do my floors.

Ethan's FAQ recommends completely deadening rooms under around 10x10, but stops short of condemning them completely.

Is there any acoustic hope for these dimensions, or should I settle for making it one larger room for everything? Thanks.

[giles117]

I' make the CR a bit wider. 6' seems awfully narrow for the front. Iy can and will work, but a wider spacing for you monitors seems better to me for imaging (hearing it at least)

And make the live room a bit smaller to accomodate the larger control room. Are your walls splayed at a 6 degree angle each?

I'd deaden the rear of the room and at slats on the front and side walls. (yes around the window if you can??)

Just my .02

Bryan Giles

[John Sayers]

So we are going to have 10 people in the studio?? well 5 in the studio and 5 in the control room.

Ok lets forget the 4 hangers on, woops sorry MR PRODUCER - SIR! you may stay

Ok so we have the band - that keyboard player could be in the control room DI - in fact he's probably prefer to be there cos he can hear his keys in stereo and within the mix.

Next I assume there's bass player

unless he's screaming metal he'd probably be DI so he can be in the control room also - with the vocalist on an SM58 on the monitors.

Do you see where I'm coming from??

We can make the mistake of addressing our attention to the size of the studio without addressing it's use. (similarly with STC ratings.)

The control room is where it's all gonna end up eventually and whilst you might have devoted 2/3 of the space for a drum sound it only accounts for a miniscule on the finished, mixed, album which is all finalised in the control room.

cheers
john

[knightfly]

I don't even like that small a control room for just me - add half a dozen bodies, and my favorite "remote control" is a 9mm...

[giles117]

You said it steve, My CR is too small for just me but I can fit about 5 people in here with that SL-1100 88 key Controller.

Makes for a decent session though. Producer sits off the side of the engineer, Keys, Bass and Gtr. Drums in booth. Works for me.

No Sofa though, Just chairs on wheels. Protect the floor PLEASE!!!!!

Bryan

[ap]

I' make the CR a bit wider. 6' seems awfully narrow for the front

Yeah, the problem is that the french doors to the left of the pic would be rendered inoperable if the wall is extended any further. I have it as far "north" as it can go.

Are your walls splayed at a 6 degree angle each?

Yes. Sorry, I should have included some specs in the pic itself.

So we are going to have 10 people in the studio?? well 5 in the studio and 5 in the control room.

LOL! Ok, I know this is extreme. I wanted to see what kind of rehearsal space this might make for my own band, thus the inclusion of the entire group in the tracking room. I do hope to record bands, but most likely not with this pictured setup. I envision usually tracking drums alone in the room with rhythm guitar in the control room, bass DI, followed by overdubs later.

The control room is where it's all gonna end up eventually and whilst you might have devoted 2/3 of the space for a drum sound it only accounts for a miniscule on the finished, mixed, album which is all finalised in the control room.

You seem to be implying that more space should be devoted to mixing than to recording, or at least that not enough importance is given to the control room in my plan. Good point, so the question is how small can it be and still get a good idea of what's in your mix? I'm asking about acoustics of this room, not the logistics of dealing with people in it.

This is one of several ways to divide this space in a way that addresses the various needs of a studio, though greatly comprised. But it's not worth considering if I'll never be able to produce a good sounding mix.

I've tried plotting various scenarios for this space and this seemed to be the best compromise- before considering acoustics. The two nearest competitors to what I'll now call option 1), would be: 2)reverse the uses of the rooms- use the big room as control and small for tracking, and 3)just leave it as one big room, which would, I assume, maximize the acoustics for both tracking and mixing, but eliminate both the ability to real-time monitor what's going to tape, and the ability to track more than two instruments with isolation.


So let me ask, how hard would it be to mix in this control room of option 1, and why?

Between the 3 options described above, which would you prefer?

Or perhaps you have a better idea all together?

Here's a rough pic of option 2), once again with fictitious party in full swing. (Disregard the description of the wall construction, as I've now decided to go with room-within-a-room construction. Also, I'd probably make the dividing walls 6 degrees and build the "north" inner wall at an opposing 6 degrees for a total of 12 degrees offset.)

[giles117]

I like option 2 with the following mods.

It seems the French Doors are a major Concer for you. If they wer not, I shorten that opening to accomodate one french style door instead of two.

For symmetry, I'd angle that north wall of the Control room and soften the angle of the South Control room wall.

This will give you a little more room in the Live Room. For acoustic control, remember that the acoustic control methods will eat up some real estate in the room.

I'd do sliding doors between the control room and the Live room.

There is more, but are those french doors life/death?

Bryan

[ap]

Yeah the french doors are already there. I could block them with something temporary like the couch, but the wife wouldn't be too happy if I put a wall there.

Unlike my picture of option 2 shows, I would make the inner north wall 6 degrees and the two walls between the two rooms 6 degrees in the opposite direction. Also, the east and west walls will each be in two sections at opposing 6 degrees, like the pic, but unlike the pic, I would maintain symmetry.

Why do you like option 2? It would sound better, or you just like more room in the control room?

I apologize for not having the pic up to date with my current plans, but all I really want to know is if the smaller room is too small for any possibility for good mixing, and what kind of acoustic problems I might encounter with it as a mix room. Not considering acoustics, I prefer the layout of option 1. But if mixing will be next to impossible, there's no point in considering it. Of course, all the other suggestions are very welcome as well.

[giles117]

More room in the control room. Plus if you did the sliding glass dors or (my fav) french style patio doors, (where both doors open up,) then that would open up to allow you a larger space for band rehearsals and interaction.

Bryan Giles

[ap]

I've seen John recommend the sliding glass doors alot. A great idea and I've looked into it but after weighing all the priorities, decided it was out of budget.

Your idea about opening them up as one large practice space is intriguing, though. That's something that never occurred to me. What kind of french style doors? Are they STC rated? How much do they typically cost?

[ap]

Here's option 4.

My smartdraw free trial expired and all I can do is butcher my existing drawings with "Paint".

I still haven't drawn in the correct wall angles or the double doors, per giles117's suggestion, between the drum and control rooms. Those doors would really turn around the whole space. Wonder if I could make something cheap by putting two solid core doors together....

I tried to make a more realistic representation of a session stretching the studio to the limits. Bass and keys DI. Could switch the vox and rhythm guitar positions if really wanted to get a keeper vocal take with full rhythm section. I like this option.

[giles117]

What doors are you looking at? Where are you located?

We find Sliders from 200 on up.

That is a small price to pay to get good control acoustics and all the other advantages.

Bryan Giles

Also where are you located?

That would help with finding materials.

[ap]

I'm in North Carolina. I've seen some pretty heavy doors at Home Depot style places for around $1200, but I didn't seriously shop them.

By sliders do you mean the entire unit- one fixed glass door and one sliding glass door in the track and frame? For $200 can you get some heavy ones with good seals etc? I'd need two units, but still, $400 is not bad at all. The ones I've seen were $600 per unit.

[giles117]

It's not the weight of the door. (If I am worng please correct) but the sealing of the door.

I have seen vinyl doors and wood framed doors at my local Home Depot for anywhere from 200 on up. I have also seen steel patio doors (like the $88.00 security doors at HD as well. about $299.00

They are white. Check those alternatives. The sealing mechanism seemed in line with what John has recommended.

My favorit style is the french style door because both doors open. I have seen white painted wood versions of these doors for $299-$499

I wish HD had links on their wbesite to show what I am talking about. Just thoroughly check HD's door aisle. I am sure you will see what I am speaking of.

Bryan Giles

here are some Lowes links

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=product ... 1728-PA14E

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=product ... 317-159390

I Believe th steel one have the magnetic seal and the wooden ones have the neoprene seal

[ap]

Thanks for the links. Unfortunately, here's what I get:

"We're sorry...

This selection is no longer available.

Shop for similar items by
clicking the button below



or continue shopping for other items."

My favorit style is the french style door because both doors open. I have seen white painted wood versions of these doors for $299-$499

Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about. That suggestion is what really got me thinking because I think it would open the space more acoustically for practicing with a full band. I just have a feeling it would sound and feel kinda strange playing to a kit through one open door- maybe someone has experience on this?.

If I can't find a decent priced set I'm gonna try to build my own double doors with a single piece of glass in each door.