Battle of the walls
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:35 pm
OK, which would be better for me to use? The rockwool or OC 700 series for the studio?
Inside the wall or on the surface?
Inside, Rockwool, On the surface 700 Series
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Battle of the walls
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Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:16 pm
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:30 pm
Hello Brian,
I think that's not so explicite:
The Termafibre (rockwool) as referred in the USG article that Steve referred to is not free from commercial interest.
Thermafibre is a company that is owned by USG.
So USG mainly compares the traditional glassfiber filling with SAFB.
While the article is very good, take that into account.
BBC compared both glassfibre and rockwool and concludes that glassfiber gives better low frequent insulation in drywalls.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1995-06.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1995-07.pdf
I feel BBC as one of the best related R&D departments. And they investigate exclusively in function of broadcasting and studios without any commercial interest.
I don't want to draw final conclusions. Just relativate things a bit.
Best regards
Eric
I think that's not so explicite:
The Termafibre (rockwool) as referred in the USG article that Steve referred to is not free from commercial interest.
Thermafibre is a company that is owned by USG.
So USG mainly compares the traditional glassfiber filling with SAFB.
While the article is very good, take that into account.
BBC compared both glassfibre and rockwool and concludes that glassfiber gives better low frequent insulation in drywalls.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1995-06.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1995-07.pdf
I feel BBC as one of the best related R&D departments. And they investigate exclusively in function of broadcasting and studios without any commercial interest.
I don't want to draw final conclusions. Just relativate things a bit.
Best regards
Eric
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:46 pm
Inside the floors and walls.
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:55 am
Carl, Eric makes a very valid point - when reading info on this stuff, it's necessary to consider the source, so to speak - Toyota isn't going to tell you that Honda makes a better SUV...
Depending on your location, sometimes it's what you can actually GET more than what's the best. Also, I would think that it's as important to get the right density in most cases as it is to get the right material.
Again keepin in mind that this is from USG, and ONLY deals with THEIR products, here is an article that helps explain some of the reasons for various performance specs -
http://www.usg.com/Design_Solutions/2_3 ... onperf.asp
The one section relating to low frequency performance makes me think that one should be careful NOT to go too dense on in-wall insulation (keep it UNDER 3 pcf, maybe even lower) since LF is harder to insulate for than mids or highs. I've even wondered about a "sandwich" with 701 as the "bread" and 703 as the "meat" - or perhaps just 703 in the center, with loose batts slightly compressed against each side to help with panel damping.
If you're even MORE confused, join the club - and trust me, it's NOT that EXCLUSIVE a club... Steve
Depending on your location, sometimes it's what you can actually GET more than what's the best. Also, I would think that it's as important to get the right density in most cases as it is to get the right material.
Again keepin in mind that this is from USG, and ONLY deals with THEIR products, here is an article that helps explain some of the reasons for various performance specs -
http://www.usg.com/Design_Solutions/2_3 ... onperf.asp
The one section relating to low frequency performance makes me think that one should be careful NOT to go too dense on in-wall insulation (keep it UNDER 3 pcf, maybe even lower) since LF is harder to insulate for than mids or highs. I've even wondered about a "sandwich" with 701 as the "bread" and 703 as the "meat" - or perhaps just 703 in the center, with loose batts slightly compressed against each side to help with panel damping.
If you're even MORE confused, join the club - and trust me, it's NOT that EXCLUSIVE a club... Steve
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:14 am
Hence my practical suggestion 
See all this theory can gag your mind. But for all intents and purposes, I'd put wool inside and 703 outside (or on an exposed surface)
Works for me and the handling of the material makes it easier to surface mount 700 series and in-wall mount mineral wool.
Bryan Giles
Honda will never say Toyotas are worse cars, they will tought their engineering specs and let you compare.
Remember 1994 "You have to drive it to believe it." Not, "We are better than everyone else"
I am a Honda Driver for 15 years if anyone wondered.
Bryan Giles
BTW, I am not confused. I am listening to this stuff in action everyday and have made adjustments based on what I heard.
If I read this stuff toooo deep I can get confused, so for all us who just wanna mix in a good room...
See all this theory can gag your mind. But for all intents and purposes, I'd put wool inside and 703 outside (or on an exposed surface)
Works for me and the handling of the material makes it easier to surface mount 700 series and in-wall mount mineral wool.
Bryan Giles
Honda will never say Toyotas are worse cars, they will tought their engineering specs and let you compare.
Remember 1994 "You have to drive it to believe it." Not, "We are better than everyone else"
I am a Honda Driver for 15 years if anyone wondered.
Bryan Giles
BTW, I am not confused. I am listening to this stuff in action everyday and have made adjustments based on what I heard.
If I read this stuff toooo deep I can get confused, so for all us who just wanna mix in a good room...
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:07 am
Yeah, Hondas ROCK - Me, wife, both kids, all Honda, no hassle, just drive the damn thing...
As for walls, etc, in my particular case it doesn't matter HOW GOOD the acoustics are, I don't want to record my neighbors' freakin' dogs barking, or their lawnmowers, or their target practice (country living ain't as quiet as it's cracked up to be) I tend to obsess on isolation (12-foot thick concrete bunker inside a 17-foot thick concrete bunker with 30 foot air space hung with staggered 4x8 "bass hangers" would be just right, if I could afford it...
Your requirements may be less, but I have to agree I'd like to just record stuff and forget all the crap... Steve
As for walls, etc, in my particular case it doesn't matter HOW GOOD the acoustics are, I don't want to record my neighbors' freakin' dogs barking, or their lawnmowers, or their target practice (country living ain't as quiet as it's cracked up to be) I tend to obsess on isolation (12-foot thick concrete bunker inside a 17-foot thick concrete bunker with 30 foot air space hung with staggered 4x8 "bass hangers" would be just right, if I could afford it...
Your requirements may be less, but I have to agree I'd like to just record stuff and forget all the crap... Steve
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:21 am
Yeah My requirements are less, I just have to block out the guy with a 5000 watt car stereo, the neighbors music bumping right when I am recording, the dog across the alley barking, etc.. Not much to worry about.
Bryan Giles
Bryan Giles
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:27 am
I just got a great 88 Honda Accord LX, ugly golden brown finish but the interior is immaculate. Drives nice! Best of all it was free!
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:29 am
Flip Up Headlights, Wish they'd bring that concept back. Plus it had the right ride. The newer ones feel over damped to me. Not sporty like the 86-89 model did.
Oh I wish... Going back to childhood..
Oh I wish... Going back to childhood..
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:15 am
I had a Honda Accord 1983 hatch. Loved it - they are crazy- they should still be making them
cheers
john
cheers
john
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:16 am
Honda Thread. LOL
Great Engineers drive Hondas. (Tad arrogant huh. )
Great Engineers drive Hondas. (Tad arrogant huh.
)